World curency of H&H

[sabinati]

uh well the 4 major factions are all here talking about it so

[DatOneGuy]

Alright here's what I propose:

Name : Hearth Coins

Value: 1 Hearth Coin = 1 Chantrelle in price. Chantrelle. I preferred Cavebulb, but I don't want any fractions in the price, if it was based on a Cavebulb, Chantrelles would be a fraction of the price.

Plan: Working with the price of 1 Chantrelle = 1 Hearth Coin, while we do know that the values globally will change drastically we can work out some constants, if any of these prices sound wrong for the 'standard' price, please by all means correct me.

1 HC = 1 Chantrelle
1 HC = 1 Blueberry
2 HC = 3 Bricks
8 HC = 3 Cavebulbs
6~8HC = 1 Tin/Copper Bar
16 HC = 1 Cast Iron Bar (Quality suggestions?)
16 HC = 1 Bronze Bar (Quality suggestions?)
100 HC = 1 Steel Bar (Quality suggestions?)
100 HC = 1 Silver Nugget
300 HC* = 1 Gold Nugget (Estimated price ; Number was 288~ but price seriously fluctuates as 288 is a low ball)

Many other things should be added to the list, the general price however should be 1 Chantrelle, anyone disagree? Perhaps it should indeed be based on Cavebulbs? The only thing that's a fraction of an HC in this specific case are low quality bricks, something that also every town needs however the price of low quality bricks can go between 24 and 36 per low quality cast iron bar, so it's hard to monitor the price on them and keep it a constant.

The 1 HC per Chantrelle is just a base line, one person may decide to sell Cast Iron Bars for 12 HC and that's perfectly fine, the main reason I see for such a currency is to easily just give someone a number in this arbitrary currency and allow them to browse what they have worth that much without having to say "well shit I'll take berries, bulbs, chants, tin, gold" and then marry the amounts, this solves most of the problem here.

[sabinati]

currency based on the chantrelle standard seems silly...

why not make a coin worth 1/100 of a metal bar so i can price chantrelles and blueberries differently? i mean right now i pay 16:1 chants and 12:1 berries and tbh i don't see that changing anytime soon.

i haven't heard a convincing argument for overvaluing coins

[DatOneGuy]

Well, I meant Hearth Coins as a generic 'term' for a magical fairy currency that doesn't exist ingame (Not sure if you think I mean valuing coins as more than actual ingame coins, I don't mean those).

I don't see a problem with doing that and having Cast Coins be the standard, there isn't a big issue with people ever adding more Cast to buy your stuff out as that just means you have more cast to buy stuff with as it goes around, as long as the price is fair.

Silver/Gold seem too valuable for people to want to take out, but also too much of a pain in the ass to make. Cast/Bronze are easy to move in, and take out.


Having 1 Cast Iron Coin be 1 Hearth Coin could certainly work, as long as that's the standard (whether cast or bronze really; I price them the same anyway).

If this is the case

100 HC = 1 Cast Iron Bar
1 HC = 1 Cast Iron Coin
8 1/3 HC = 1 Blueberry
6.25 HC = 1 Chantrelle
4 HC = 1 Brick
16 HC = 1 Cavebulb
100 HC = 1 Bronze Bar
300 HC = 1 Wrought Iron Bar
600 HC = 1 Steel Bar
600 HC = 1 Silver Nugget
1800 HC = 1 Gold Nugget

--
The price could work but the current Blueberry/Chants scheme wouldn't work, you'd either set it at 8*12Berries=96 HC (A bit short) or 9*12Berries=108HC (A bit over)

Whatever is decided, it'd be nice to get it decided soon, I'm fine with several currencies, I just don't want it based on something so big like a whole cast iron bar, I much prefer working with big whole numbers than having to subdivide things, that just makes it a lot more overlycomplicated.

For example 100 HC for 12 Blueberries is all fine and dandy when you're making the trade regularly, but it's not all fine and dandy when it's in a stand.

The only other pitfall with using ingame Coins is that people who don't have the cast iron in the first place cant make a finery forge to smelt the coins they have back into bars to make a finery forge. This can be somewhat helped by having a coin->bar stand mandatory at each market, or a finery forge.

[serpentyngallery]

currency based on the chantrelle standard seems silly...

why not make a coin worth 1/100 of a metal bar so i can price chantrelles and blueberries differently? i mean right now i pay 16:1 chants and 12:1 berries and tbh i don't see that changing anytime soon.

i haven't heard a convincing argument for overvaluing coins

That's how I work it, and by the value of the metal the coins are made from, like steel coins are worth 6x that of a cast or bronze coin. Putting together a trade thread going over it all atm, and need to discuss with my villagers about "specialty" items we are gonna put up, and pricing of certain gear. Should be amusing for ya to poke fun at.

[sabinati]

Well, I meant Hearth Coins as a generic 'term' for a magical fairy currency that doesn't exist ingame (Not sure if you think I mean valuing coins as more than actual ingame coins, I don't mean those).

I don't see a problem with doing that and having Cast Coins be the standard, there isn't a big issue with people ever adding more Cast to buy your stuff out as that just means you have more cast to buy stuff with as it goes around, as long as the price is fair.

Silver/Gold seem too valuable for people to want to take out, but also too much of a pain in the ass to make. Cast/Bronze are easy to move in, and take out.


Having 1 Cast Iron Coin be 1 Hearth Coin could certainly work, as long as that's the standard (whether cast or bronze really; I price them the same anyway).

If this is the case

100 HC = 1 Cast Iron Bar
1 HC = 1 Cast Iron Coin
8 1/3 HC = 1 Blueberry
6.25 HC = 1 Chantrelle
4 HC = 1 Brick
16 HC = 1 Cavebulb
100 HC = 1 Bronze Bar
300 HC = 1 Wrought Iron Bar
600 HC = 1 Steel Bar
600 HC = 1 Silver Nugget
1800 HC = 1 Gold Nugget

--
The price could work but the current Blueberry/Chants scheme wouldn't work, you'd either set it at 8*12Berries=96 HC (A bit short) or 9*12Berries=108HC (A bit over)

Whatever is decided, it'd be nice to get it decided soon, I'm fine with several currencies, I just don't want it based on something so big like a whole cast iron bar, I much prefer working with big whole numbers than having to subdivide things, that just makes it a lot more overlycomplicated.

For example 100 HC for 12 Blueberries is all fine and dandy when you're making the trade regularly, but it's not all fine and dandy when it's in a stand.

The only other pitfall with using ingame Coins is that people who don't have the cast iron in the first place cant make a finery forge to smelt the coins they have back into bars to make a finery forge. This can be somewhat helped by having a coin->bar stand mandatory at each market, or a finery forge.

that all sounds pretty dandy but wouldn't a cavebulb be 25?

and yeah, i think bronze = cast

[Tacheron]

Um, guys - when I suggested a world currency be implemented, I meant for you all to use the same denomination here in the forums, not actually have coins in the game. As we've all seen, until they can be uniquely stamped and the stamping controlled, anyone could flood the market with self made coins making them obsolete.

What I, as a customer, wanted was to have all the major factions decide on the same currency, that's all. Like having a Euro in Europe. So that when I look into all the "stores" (trade topics here on the forums), I wouldn't have to convert the prices.

So basically, what you need to do is just decide, like Dog tried to do here, the basic value of a coin. And by that I mean that for the value of 1 coin you could get approximately the same item/s from any faction (I.e. 16 chantrelles from the goons = 1 coin = 1 low q metal bar = etc.). I say approximately because haggling and market fluctuation is something that I think would have to happen to entice customers.

[Breakneck9]

Correct me if I am wrong.

Koya would like to implement a unique print for town coins for trading if the devs would allow this.

It appears that this will not occur any time soon so pricing is being discussed on items (trying to find base pricing) due to the need for an easier transaction method for a larger than average quantity of goods.

I too hope something comes about if not this map then next. I wish you luck and will support what all 4 factions agree upon if they can on this map.

Maybe in the future, as koya hinted to, If the devs were able to implement a central bank with controls such as deposit 1 silver bar and receive 1 silver coin, ( and in reverse, insert 1 silver coin get one silver bar ) then I could see this might work a little better. It certainly would be a guaranteed value based currency. Additionally, the amount a Village could receive from the central bank would be based on a per ca-pita
bases ( Level of authority a village has = x amount of coins they may get from central bank) this would prevent a flooding of the market and control the value of the currency from inflation or deflation and it would encourage an economy based on supply and demand. People would then be able to set there own prices rather than prices being set for them.

Actually, it could even be broken down into individual LP on a character and/or tied to village authority. (look in your characters account and all your stats are given for each one so it wouldn't be too hard to do)

Of course, for things such as rings, and small quantity of goods, the black market, or bartering would still be prevalent.

[ciroth]

If there is to be a currency, it will have to be player driven and not relying so much on the dev like developing a central bank. Maybe could be developed by the players and run by the players until it collapses, but no actual in game code that automatically does any depositing or converting.

Currencies add a new layer of complexity to the game, but must be agreed and used by the players and not enforced by the devs. Coinage equipment with stamps can be developed but the use and system of coins must be enforced and used by the players. Even if there was a "Banker's Table" which help keep track of how much of each XX,YY,ZZ Village coins are in circulation in game would help... but not necessary.

Guaranteeing value of coins is silly... in the sense that you remove a lot of game play aspect from the game. Then villages who topple a large faction or empire will be able to instantly demolish if not heavily reduce the worth of the faction's value to the point where it is only worth as much as its face value. Villages will have to develop and build large networks and manage their minting and coin supplies. If they are giving too much coins out to purchase supplies for a war, it will probably drop its value by a lot.

IMO If people want to use a coin system, its a risk you have to take. But the rewards are great as you can get a lot more stuff in shorter time. For example lets just say that a "Gumby Coins" is one of the most popular used currency because it is stable, worth much more than its face value, easy to transport, circulated throughout many villages, "Gumby" faction has a lot of security with military that ensures security of their currency, and lets say it is backed up by a gold standard (cuz Fiat is a nightmare... imo) But "Plumbers" Faction knocked out Gumby Faction and declared all of Gumby's Coins worth nothing more than its metal value. This shafts anyone who is trying to exchange their worthless coins for new Plumber Coins as the Gumby Coins are pretty much dirt. (assuming we aren't gonna be minting rare metal coins and using the face value of the coin as the trade value or everyone would just horde the gold and not use it to trade but to make their own stuff which removes currency from circulation. But if you use bronze coins, copper, tin, or iron as coins backed up by silver and gold stored in a vault. Then the only way to remove coin in circulation is for the players to buy or return the coins to the main village in exchange for gold or goods equal to the value of the coins backed up by the gold/silver standard... if we are gonna use that kind of standard... BUT i understand there are a lot of problems with using a silver or gold standard... there is really no perfect coin system.)

Or hell.... Gumby could offer 1:2 raito for Plumber Coins and buy out the whole circulation of those coins then go knock on Plumber's faction to give over their gold equal to the amount of coins they have... or prove they have the gold to back up the coins they have... If there was too much coins minted and owned by Gumby, then Plumbers would be screwed and people will realize that the worth of that currency is worth nothing but the metal used to produce it and people would have no confidence in using it to trade with.

So much more fun... villages further away from any major factions would stick with bartering as their coins will be worth nothing more than its face value and word of mouth.

i dont know where i am going... just rambling and thinking this would add some interesting economic and diplomatic negotiations Not to mention could give meaning to wars with factions over economic power and currency strength :3 Unless we are all gonna accept 1 universal standard of some village's coinage.

Summary:
Stamp for custom coins yes!!
Central bank that automatically exchanges stuff developed by dev no!
currency developed by dev, No!
currency handled and attempted by players yes!!!

[Tacheron]

To make currency stable, we'd need a coin press with unique stamping, we'd need it to be able to mark how many coins it has produced so far so it's known how much coins are in circulation (which means the press would have to be VERY well guarded, as IRL ), we'd need a sort of a committee consisting of representatives from the major factions to oversee the count and agree on releasing a new batch of coins.

Implement that and we can talk about coin value. Otherwise this is just a talk about making it easier for customers to decide which faction offers the best prices.