World curency of H&H

[Koya]

No matter how it turn out, will be unique coins to start trade relations, or not, I think we need one world curency for prices, changes and everything else.

It leads to few steps:
1 - Name of currency
2 - Price of curency
3 - SubCurency (for trades less than 1 silver coin)
4 - Recomended prices for usual stuff

1
We thought about names... and our choose was ADC (AD Coin), it was good for us but is not good for world equivalent.
My proposition will be AC (Absolute Coin), and for lesser coins will be just C (coin).
Or we can use by material SC (Silver Coin) or lesser CC (coper coin)
Also there can be used as name just Coin, and lesser value can be set just as 0.01 and etc.

2
We thought to launch our coins, so we set the price 1 silver coin is 1 bar of silver witch is 100 copper coins. Silver was choosen by us because we have it a lot and it gives a good avarage price, still not such expencive as gold. For gold we set price of 2.5 bars of silver per bar of gold. Which is avarage between trade partners price and market price. If there appear coin which can be used for world curency we will make a coins, and they will be guarantee to recive bar of silver per silver coin or 100 copper.

3
1 silver coin cost 1 bar of silver, its good value but is too much for avarage trades. So sub-curency must be 1 copper coin, wich will represent 0.01 of silver coin. And if to look at curent trades its in avarage represent a 1 cavebulb.

4
It must be done by all big citys and villages. There must be recomended prices, in few trade threads we see something simmilar, but it need to be united in 1 list. Of course quality will have a correction in prices, and of course price will be floating up and down depending on sales and proposition. But it will be product-money-product line... not product-product like at this moment.

I see active citys who can change the market: AD + Alliance, Sodom, Buyan, Goons. At least I didn't meet others who can globally change something on market. If there others - I will be glad to read their comments and propositions too.

[Thurrok]

Your idea seems interesting, but what could you do if I started making my own silver coins, exchanging it for silver bars, and making even more coins?

[WarpedWiseMan]

A better concept would be to have a strict or base pricing point for goods. Like what sabinati and the goons started with goonbucks but maybe a little less complicated and gay.

Then take those prices and spread them throughout the game. Paper/Metal currency, for me, is just a waste-of-space dream at the moment. I'd rather barter than buy.

[Koya]

Barter is always keeping trade in world... its good on start but cannot reach higher values.

If that coins will be unique to city, and that city will be producing coins with guaranted silver in vault for change in every second, that coins will have a real value...
For example if I have 240 bars of silver in vault, I can make 240 silver coins, and in trade stand there will be bar of silver selling for that coin, possible to buy every moment. Or you wanna buy something and change 1 silver coin for 100copper, and in next stand you buy jewelry with good quality, or maybe good armor, or maybe 4-5 bars of iron to repair metal plow... its yours choice, you have in hand product possible to change for everything. And you need just 2-3 slots for coins in inventory with you to go shopping... Not a damn Vagon...

[sabinati]

A better concept would be to have a strict or base pricing point for goods. Like what sabinati and the goons started with goonbucks but maybe a little less complicated and gay.

the problem with pricing goods is that it is in fact, very complicated and gay by nature with so many different items at different qualities, it was pretty difficult to come up with "reasonable" base prices for things that scaled reasonably with quality in some kind of standard way. it does get pretty complicated though, so we're working on a web app where you could input items/qualities and it will tell you the value in goonbucks based on our current prices. it should be ready by this weekend.

Then take those prices and spread them throughout the game.

while i expect similar (but not exactly the same) prices from a lot of different groups, we do, i think, need to base our units on the same thing. AD seems to be basing theirs on cavebulbs, while i base mine on low q metal bars. AD's system allows a little finer price resolution, which i do like, so i might convert my pricing to the same base as them. if everyone else is in agreement, then i think we can have some "world currency".

Paper/Metal currency, for me, is just a waste-of-space dream at the moment. I'd rather barter than buy.

yeah, personally i don't think that having ingame coins represent anything other than your price for that metal is a good idea without some kind of mechanic to prevent this:

Your idea seems interesting, but what could you do if I started making my own silver coins, exchanging it for silver bars, and making even more coins?

for now, at least, i will keep my "currency" as store credit, and not physical game currency, unless 1 silver coin = it's physical value in silver (i.e. 1/10 of a silver nugget, 1/100 of a silver bar). a bar of silver is pretty high value, 60 goonbucks by my current pricing, i guess something like 180-240©. there are not that many things to buy at that value level. if you value a coin at more than 1/100th of a bar then with 1 stack of silver coins i could buy everything you have.

[DatOneGuy]

A few things I see that should be addressed:

1)If you have 1 silver coin = 1 silver bar that means that I could go mine a silver bar, and introduce it into your 'market' as the equal of 100 silver bars. That means that while I wasted only 1 silver bar, I could now trade it around and end up with the worth of 100 silver bars. This is a problem.

Solution: 100 silver coins = 1 silver bar. This is how it really just must be, you can't change this higher or lower or it will cause people to take money out of your market, or put more in.

2)The biggest problem we should address IMO are:

a)What should be the universal currency
b)What markets will respect this 'currency'
c)Out of the general goods, what will their price be in this 'currency'?
d)Should Village A accept things in the currency of Village B?

Now as I see it there are 2 people who have already adopted a currency, there are goonbucks and there are A.D. Coins. They are very similar in pricing and things change, now obviously if everyone sells 1 goonbuck/1 A.D.Coin as 24 low quality bricks, there's no reason to trade with one over the other, so there will be price changing, however based on the 'typical' prices, we should run a currency based on, from there if someone wants different prices, that's fine. i.e.
1 'Hearthcoin' = 1 q10~39 Cast Iron Bar
1 HC = 16 Chantrelles
1 HC = 16 Blueberries
1 HC = 16 Linen Cloth
1 HC = 24 Bricks
18 HC = 1 Gold Nugget
6 HC = 1 Silver Nugget
2 HC = 1 q40~89 Cast Iron Bar
4 HC = 1 q90+ Cast Iron Bar
10 HC = 1 Peak Quality Cast Iron Bar
6 HC = 1 Steel Bar (Bad quality)

Etc, etc, etc

Depending on what markets jump on board and whether they are closed or open markets can make a big deal, I can say that if such a currency comes around I can work a bit harder to find specific goods I'll keep in stock at my stores and use the currency, I can't speak for all of Sodom on the matter, but I can talk to the rest of us who trade and have barter stands and see what happens, I'm assuming A.D. and allies will be in (You guys are setting up a market square as well? Will this be public (signs to anyone) or private (signs/charterstone)? If goons join in, same question.

We need to talk over what things should cost, what I gave up there is what I was going with in my own prices but it's far off from what it actually should be, I never had time to weigh what gold should cost compared to cast iron and what's actually worth it, for example a gold nugget may realistically be worth 36 cast iron, or 24 cast iron, but in this case it would cost 576 bricks for one gold nugget? That might not be so 'balanced'. Same goes for silver, it's common, yes, but not 'that' common, what should it's price be.

If we have this general idea, howwould we work out if people pay over or under, if I sell you 50L of q100 wine and you value that at 2 silver nuggets, what if I just want 1 silver nugget and want to save the rest for later, how will that work out, how can we track said 'debt', and how will it work? It'd be nice if everything was ready to buy 'as is',but that's not going to work. We could work in 'silver coins' so that they hold their own debt, yes, but in this case all of these villages need to have their stands accept silver coins and copper coins which means that unless we have a solid market, there will be money taken out, and money going in.

the problem with pricing goods is that it is in fact, very complicated and gay by nature with so many different items at different qualities, it was pretty difficult to come up with "reasonable" base prices for things that scaled reasonably with quality in some kind of standard way. it does get pretty complicated though, so we're working on a web app where you could input items/qualities and it will tell you the value in goonbucks based on our current prices. it should be ready by this weekend.

Very simple to make with some basic PHP, as long as standard prices are going.

[sabinati]

yeah it's in php, and some javascript i think. at the moment, let's say "it's an alpha" , but just a few things to tweak and it should be good to go.

[TeckXKnight]

This topic delights me to no end and I hope that it comes out to a fruitful discussion with a meaningful conclusion. With that said, I believe if you wish to shoot for a currency, a larger entity (perhaps yourselves or a group of larger cities) needs to back the value. At any time, if I want to trade my coins in, I should be able to get that currency back out. Metal bars and cavebulbs, from what has been displayed so far, are the most common goods because they are uncommon enough to prevent rapid inflation while still available enough to not deflate the value with every active buyer who goes inactive. If the value of the currency is in the coins alone, then I have no inscentive to collect the coins other than to spend the coins and then it is therefore never profitable for me to have more coins than I immediately need to buy the goods I immediately want. Make it profitable and convenient to acquire, spend, and exchange these coins.

If you're shooting for a world economy, you will need an uncommon good that can self regulate; more will appear to inflate the value at a rate roughly equal to deflation occuring naturally from players dying, losing items, or going inactive/quitting. If the value does not self-regulate, that means the parent organization will need to constantly reinflate the item and that will become unwieldly and unreasonable at larger scales. If you over-inflate or allow over-deflation, people will lose access to goods and trade will become stagnant.

Silver and Gold are understandably good values for a uniformed currency in that outside forces will be hard pressed to inflate the value but at the same time virtually no other forces can add to them. If you're alright with having an extremely tight number of transactions possible then silver is okay otherwise you need to find something valued slightly under them such as wrought iron (I believe you can make wrought iron coins?) which has much more opportunity to self inflate.

tl;dr - Don't create a valueless currency or a currency which is too valuable. I wish you the best of luck in formulating some groundwork towards this.

[Koya]

First of all I see somebody didn't understood the thing...

Printing coins we will start ONLY when there will be coinpress as authority item which will be producing coins with name of city, so you could choose them as payment. In this case your trade 40stands will be accepting only your money. Now we use it only for theoretical pricemaking to be ready if devs will implement unique coins...
Also to make coins valuable, we will keep 1 bar of silver for every coin in vault... Like I said, I can make 240 coins now... so to fulfill market I will make 200 silver coins and 4000 of copper, this all eqals 240bars of silver.

So there will stand next barter stands:
1 - Purchase stands... its barter stands where you change your stuff for coins.
2 - Change stands... its trade stands where you can change 1 silver coin for 100copper and back, 100copper for 1silver.
3 - Sell stands... its trade stands where you can buy great stuff for coins.

[DeBosh]

First of all I see somebody didn't understood the thing...

Printing coins we will start ONLY when there will be coinpress as authority item which will be producing coins with name of city, so you could choose them as payment. In this case your trade 40stands will be accepting only your money. Now we use it only for theoretical pricemaking to be ready if devs will implement unique coins...
Also to make coins valuable, we will keep 1 bar of silver for every coin in vault... Like I said, I can make 240 coins now... so to fulfill market I will make 200 silver coins and 4000 of copper, this all eqals 240bars of silver.

So there will stand next barter stands:
1 - Purchase stands... its barter stands where you change your stuff for coins.
2 - Change stands... its trade stands where you can change 1 silver coin for 100copper and back, 100copper for 1silver.
3 - Sell stands... its trade stands where you can buy great stuff for coins.

As i understand, the only thing that stops this brilliant idea is that there is no way to prevent anyone from making his own silver coins if he has access to silver mine. As well, who can guarantee that EVERY last coin, made by, for example, Sodom, will be backed by 1 bar of metal? Who will prevent that said city from making coins even with their symbol and buying everything that they can b4 all traders will understand that currency is literally worthless?

ed: So how i see the solution. Jorb and Loftar create truly unique coins. 1silver jorbtar buck, 1 copper jorbtar buck. Citys, who want to recieve any amount of them, may make their lists here, in the topic. After that Jorb and Loftar spread _fixed_ amount of jorbtar bucks (in silver or copper versions-as town leaders wish), taking for them silver bars, cavebulvs etc. So for example: Jorb comes to town, town leader gives him 100 bars of silver, Jorb deletes them , gives to the town leader 50 silver jorbtar bucks, 5000 copper jorbtar buks. Amount of currency is fixed, and Jorb or Loftar announce how much of jorbtar bucks are currently in the world.