ITT we discuss the morality of insults

[burgingham]

It still implies that. Language does not change that fast. It is a cheap excuse to claim that.

The cultural implications of homosexuals being somewhat of a lesser form of human beings is still very much in almost everyones heads. Communication reproduces itself and creates follow up communication. Using the word fag as an insult is part of that.

Edit: Also, the claim that language changes should never be used as a generalized excuse. Changes in languagae should always be supervised by a morel debate on the roots, implications, consequences of something. Going around trying to establish "Heil Hitler" as a casual greeting would never be acceptable and I don't think anyone would argue with that. Same as calling people "Dirty Jews" as an insult. But for homosexuals it is totally ok? No, there are other reasons for this which have their roots in the ever so present discrimination of homsexuals in todays society.

Instead of trying to make "fag" a socially acceptable term one could just as easy not use it as an insult anymore. Why is that so much harder to do than doing the morally questionable thing and then having a big argument about it?

[naosnule]

It still implies that. Language does not change that fast. It is a cheap excuse to claim that.

The cultural implications of homosexuals being somewhat of a lesser form of human beings is still very much in almost everyones heads. Communication reproduces itself and creates follow up communication. Using the word fag as an insult is part of that.

It can change very rapidly.

There are strong cultural implications of Christianity set forth by flags with a cross in them. However, that doesn't stop people from any religion to wave those flags during the national day with pride and without the slightiest thought about Christianity.


Don't let history keep you as a ball and chain. (Something you should be very familiar with given that you are German).

[SlamBliss]

It can change very rapidly.

Yes, but it hasn't.
http://youtu.be/BREvUu4wI-4

[burgingham]

@Naosule: You might want to read my edit.

And no it does not change rapidly. That is just used as an excuse to make it acceptable when the underlying implications are meant to recreate the inferiority.

The very fact that we are having this discussion shows there is still a huge moral dilemma connected to the use of this word. Otherwise we would not even think about that.

Your history comparison is kinda off btw. In the case of Germany it is indeed very important to always remember history, but as a moral reminder on how to behave normatively. Not in a way to always blame the Germans for something. The same is going on with the word fag, just the other way around. It is beung used to reproduce inequalities, often on a subconscious level. It is a very typical sociological circumstance when cultural dominance is questioned.

Also: Why do people insist on being allowed to use the word as an insult when it is clearly causing issues and insulting a whole group of people? It would be so much easier to just use another word and drop this. But no, apparently people can't do that. For the reasons I listed above.

[burgingham]

I will split this thread. We went way too offtopic here.

Edit: Ok, moved to the Inn and renamed.

[painhertz]

You all are straight, ffs.
God damn straight people.

fucking breeder

Confirmed straight and living with his waifu ingame......

Also: Most gay folk I know, (my nephew and one of my best freinds included) have no problem with the term "faggot" and realize that it long since lost any intrinsic meaning of "homosexual". I'm a bit older than most of you and grew up in a world where this PC bullshit hadn't spread and not eveyone was offended by every random term that left our mouth.

[sabinati]

It still implies that. Language does not change that fast. It is a cheap excuse to claim that.

it kinda does, both of these words have acquired their homosexual meaning in the last century

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?all ... hmode=none
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?all ... hmode=none

[SlamBliss]

Eh, many people play this game simply for the sheer potential to inconvenience others. Thus, talking and reasoning are off of the table for those people. Haven and Hearth is by definition, a griefer's paradise.
It's all actually incredibly childish, but whatever "gets you off" as it is said.

[burgingham]

Well, there is a difference between a century and a few years

Also, I would argue that there is different qualities. Aquiring a new meaning for a word can be something value-free. Then it is easy and uncomplicated to make a change over time. In the debated case however there is a lot of underlying problems questioning contemporary morals and values.

That is why I ask myself why even insist on using this as an insult? Could just drop it and keep calling people assholes, or idiots (or not insult eachother at all). The underlying implication of them being gay however is what makes this an insult of choice since that is still largely regarded as a negative attribute even by modern western societies.

When particularly teenagers and kids use this word as an insult that tells you something about the education they have gotten. It is never a coincedence when a child does something. That is why I am saying communication reproduces itself. Not only in such large steps as from parent to child, but also in everyday small talk.

[Tonkyhonk]

the life cycle of slangs and insulting terms are always short and they always lose its original meaning pretty fast once they are spread out, that is a fact.
who would scream out for help when someone says "fuck you", who thinks of poop when someone says "shit", and who actually ever implicate the original meaning of "bastard", "motherfucker", "retarded" and so on?

i just hope moderators here are decent enough as a team not to start the "word-hunting" like they did in salem forums.