Irrelevant, old news

[Anon9k]

I'll get LP while doing nothing so it's not like I've stopped advancing. Why not just gain all of my LP from the safety of my cellar where nobody will ever possibly find me?

Right, because curiosities just appear in your study without actual foraging, you don't need to keep in mind the nearby area when settling down, and you don't need to make sure you are surrounded by foraging locations like mountains and swamps, not just forest.

I like how the only complaint about the old system is "BUT BOTS!". You think bots don't still exist?

Obviously you are blind, because main concern is that amount of LP you get will depend mostly on how long are you staying online in the game. No skill involvement. You won't need to protect your foraging grounds, you won't need to have a decent character to forage, all you need is a forest in the middle of nowhere and time (and yeah, 99% of players would use bots for that). Current foraging bots are not that effective as bucket making bots just because you can forage 9000 bluebells every hour, but you can't study them all, while you obviously can craft a fuckton of buckets every fucking minute.

[YoukaiMori]

When was the last time you actually ran into somebody in game? Because I haven't in world 7.

It happens same often as back in w3. Almost never.
Once again: to get curios you need to put some effort, even bots for current system are way more complicated. Now you actually have to go outside once in a while. And with old system you could just run digging or farmer bot and stay inside forever.

Again, your entire complaint is "BUT THERE WERE BOTS", there are still bots. And "digging/farming" bots? What? So basically, everybody else is botting every aspect of the gameplay besides you?

Let's just summarize current and old systems.

Current:
Run around and find something
Spend X hours studying it
Get a small amount of LP depending on quality, I.E. A Q150 bear tooth was giving like 2500LP with base tradition/change with a base 60h study time. I think it was study weight 25? I forget exactly, I'd have to log back in.

Old:
Run around finding something
Use that something to do literally anything
Get a small amount of LP for each one you do

Or:
Go kill a single bear, get like what was it, 3,000LP? Then you get the LP for skinning and butchering said bear. Then you get the LP for turning the skin into leather, the meat into sausage, the rest into whatever else you could make with bears.

I mean seriously. Your complaint is bots. You are completely able to hunt down bots and kill them if you think that them making buckets is ruining your gameplay experience. Do you think bots are killing all of the animals near you? Go ahead, kill those ones too. The game lets you freely kill anybody you think is a bot. Even if all they do is log off, you have stopped that bot from botting. You know what the study system really did? Stopped less casual players from playing the game at all.

Once world 4 started, my entire village of players quit all at once because the study system had completely killed most of the game for them. Did any of us bot? Nope. Not a single one. Did any of us deforest areas to make buckets? Sure, maybe for a day, when we were just starting. Most people I knew hunted, made sausage, or farmed for LP. And when new players joined, all they had to do was finish construction on a stone mansion to get a boat load of LP.

But I digress. If I wanted this to turn into such a large argument I would have made a new thread. I was only putting in my two cents about the 2.5D change and how graphics alone won't get most old players to come back.

and yeah, 99% of players would use bots for that

Hahahhhhhh.

[Anon9k]

I.E. A Q150 bear tooth was giving like 2500LP with base tradition/change with a base 60h study time.

Perfect example of crap curiosity, why don't you take bluebell or pearl as example?

and how graphics alone won't get most old players to come back.

Thank god, haven community doesn't need more whining noobs.

[dagrimreefah]

Again, your entire complaint is "BUT THERE WERE BOTS"

That wasn't his main argument? Sounds like you're desperate.

[Lordtimo]

Once world 4 started, my entire village of players quit all at once because the study system had completely killed most of the game for them.

This shows your knowledge about the game.

[YoukaiMori]

Again, your entire complaint is "BUT THERE WERE BOTS"

That wasn't his main argument? Sounds like you're desperate.

It was the ENTIRE thing. There was no other argument besides "but bucket bots, guys. Bucket bots."

[Tonkyhonk]

look on the bright side, relieved to hear this someone isnt bringing in a dozen or more extra retarded players along. q150 bear tooth lmao.

[GrapefruitV]

Again, your entire complaint is "BUT THERE WERE BOTS"

Try to read more carefully.

there are still bots.

That's right. The point is, bots don't make this game extremely unbalanced anymore. It's not enough to have a primitive bot to get a strong char now. You cant repeat one simple action to get unlimited amounts of lp. You have to use your brain and skills now, being a friend of coder wont give you an easy win (although it is still gives you minor advantage)

And "digging/farming" bots? What?

In case you forgot, "harvest wheat - make flour - make hat" algorithm was almost as popular as buckets. To do that you need to go out only once, to get 1 seed of wheat. I mentioned this, because lack of players outside seems to bother you. However haven never was crowded, so I don't know why do you think it has anything to do with lp system. I'd say the main reasons are permadeath and a huge world.

So basically, everybody else is botting every aspect of the gameplay besides you?

What?

Run around and find something
Spend X hours studying it
Get a small amount of LP depending on quality, I.E. A Q150 bear tooth was giving like 2500LP with base tradition/change with a base 60h study time. I think it was study weight 25? I forget exactly, I'd have to log back in.

Or use your brain and actual industry, tame and raise your sheeps, raise your hemp and trees to make a better sling, raise your metal q to get better cutting tool, kill a bear, make stuffed bears with his hide and your wool and get ~120 000lp only from that, while someone is too lazy to put any effort to this game and getting his 2500 from shitty tooth.
Do you get it now? Industry finally matters, you're being rewarded for your 12h online comparing to someones 12 minutes, but at the same time you can't get too far away from him to make this game impossible for newcomers and too easy for botters.

Use that something to do literally anything

Or:
Go kill a single bear, get like what was it, 3,000LP? Then you get the LP for skinning and butchering said bear. Then you get the LP for turning the skin into leather, the meat into sausage, the rest into whatever else you could make with bears.

And what stops you now? Lack of motivation? Sandbox is just not your type of gameplay then.
Also killing a bear was ~30 000, it doesnt really matter though.

I mean seriously. Your complaint is bots.

My complaint is "the old system was unbalanced and broken as hell". Bots is not the real issue, doesnt even matter if you were making buckets with bots or by your own hands. The point is to have a decent char back then all you needed to do was repeat same meaningless action over and over again: buckets, straw hats, pots, baskets, hunting - doesnt matter which one. And now you actually have to think to achieve something.

You are completely able to hunt down bots and kill them if you think that them making buckets is ruining your gameplay experience. Do you think bots are killing all of the animals near you? Go ahead, kill those ones too. The game lets you freely kill anybody you think is a bot. Even if all they do is log off, you have stopped that bot from botting.

Please, go and kill all the bots. I would like to see that. This is not my desire, but it sounds so easy, that I would like to see you try.

You know what the study system really did? Stopped less casual players from playing the game at all.

How exactly?
On the contrary new system made world more friendly for casuals. See the edels example. Besides now you don't need to play everyday to keep your village alive. If that is not casual players friendly, I don't know what you're talking about.

Once world 4 started, my entire village of players quit all at once because the study system had completely killed most of the game for them. Did any of us bot? Nope. Not a single one. Did any of us deforest areas to make buckets? Sure, maybe for a day, when we were just starting. Most people I knew hunted, made sausage, or farmed for LP. And when new players joined, all they had to do was finish construction on a stone mansion to get a boat load of LP.

And again, new system allows you do to all the same things, but it doesnt encourage same actions repeat, which made HnH a real sandbox. Now you can do anything you want without worrying about amount of lp it would give you. You're free to waste your time on building and roleplaying without being forced to go hunt bears, when you don't want to, because your neighbour just replanted a huge wheat field and most likely did it to get enough lp to kill you and take your land.

But I digress. If I wanted this to turn into such a large argument I would have made a new thread. I was only putting in my two cents about the 2.5D change and how graphics alone won't get most old players to come back.

The thing is, your two cents are based on one fail of small unexperienced group of players. You obviously didn't get far with current system and don't understand it. Yet you suggest the whole game to get back to extremely broken system to get a couple of your friends back, because they can't create motivation for themselves.

[dagrimreefah]

It was the ENTIRE thing. There was no other argument besides "but bucket bots, guys. Bucket bots."

That's all you chose to see.

[YoukaiMori]

I wasn't going to post again, but what?

And again, new system allows you do to all the same things, but it doesnt encourage same actions repeat, which made HnH a real sandbox. Now you can do anything you want without worrying about amount of lp it would give you. You're free to waste your time on building and roleplaying without being forced to go hunt bears, when you don't want to, because your neighbour just replanted a huge wheat field and most likely did it to get enough lp to kill you and take your land.

The thing with the old system was that every single action, no matter how minor or what step in a process it was, gave you LP. You gained, we can call it "experience", from performing actions. I don't know what we call it here in the real world when you perform the same action repeatedly, but in game we can call it "experience". Now, you could even say that this gaining "experience" through all actions actually let you do anything you wanted, and not be punished by that action not having any importance to your character, because regardless of how minor it was you still got some "experience" from doing it. You got better at things by doing things. Which is amazing, right? I know, it's whacky that they would think that's even remotely fair to anybody who plays the game. Pffft, getting LP from everything you do? That's stupid, that's unfair and only certain people have access to doing things or performing actions right?

Now, on your other point. Let me paraphrase:

Nowadays you don't just do the same thing over and over for LP, you can "waste your time on building and roleplaying" instead.

Please, explain how you study every single thing you find, and not two or three very specific objects that give you the optimum amount of LP for time spent studying.

No, please, refute that point. How is studying the same couple optimal items any better than crafting the same couple optimal things in order to optimize your optimal lp optimization? The type of player who actually grinded one specific craft, botting or not, was taking the easy way to LP, not the fastest or best, just the easiest, and that's their own thing. You know why? Because the game was a sandbox game where they could do that if that's what they wanted to do, and they weren't punished or rewarded for taking the easy road. That's fine, you don't like how they played the game, but how was it affecting you? People willing to invest more time into manual labor and grind out LP'd you who spent most of your time roleplaying?

Now on the other hand, you spend your time getting the same curiosity over and over again, and saying that it's somehow different or less repetitive than people who made buckets or hats? You have given examples of what, three possible curiosities that are actually worth studying in your own opinion, the rest are non-optimal or "shitty" curiosities, I.E. bear tooth. You are essentially the people you are complaining about from the old days, but a new brand of awful, you, compared to them, don't actually have to invest any time actually playing, just log in and make sure your sheep aren't dead, set a new study, and then go back to not playing. While before, if somebody wanted to "grind hats", they had to waste a lot of time "Grinding hats".

Again, I'm not condemning your use of the same single curiosity as "ruining the game for me", you're free to study a single thing 24/7 if that's what you want to do to advance, if that's how you choose to play the current LP system, that is your choice and I'm in no position to say that how you decide to gain LP is somehow ruining the game for me or unfair.

On another note, directly related to this quote. "Wasting your time building", pre-curiosity, building wasn't a "waste of time", you gained LP through building, you advanced your town or personal claim through building, which helped you produce more food, be more safe from invaders or thieves, whatever, and it was NEVER a waste of time to build. Even so much as paving roads gave you LP. On the other hand, you're right, paving your way to a water source is mostly a waste of time now, especially for an established player who gains pretty much nothing from doing it, sure, you get the easier access to the water source, but before? You got the access AND the LP.

The point of a sandbox game is to let you do anything. Being rewarded for doing anything ensured that you could choose anything you wanted to do, anything at all, and still advance and have fun in the game, as there was no "wrong" way to gain LP. And in the end, even though it's a sandbox game, every player wants LP, they want to advance, that is a major part of the game. You can't tell me that you would have just as much fun on a basic level 1 in all skills as you would in a character with higher skills. There is now a "wrong" way to gain LP, that is to not study a very select couple of objects, and people like you consider important actions such as building to be a "waste of time".

BUT AGAIN. I digress. I never planned to post again but these points were just insane if you think you're actually defending the new system, a lot of your points are actually reasons why it's bad.