the genocide of the arab people in palestine

[burgingham]

Heh, I wonder how long till your ISP blocks this site, Burg. I'm betting when someone denies holocaust.

Nah wont happen.I just always find those pro- and anti- judaean debates interesting as a political scientist. Everyone seems to be so inclined on takin a strong opinion, that facts seem to barely matter. Even better that the difficulty to judge those facts intersubjective does not occur to anyone and instead bashing the opposite faction is much more interesting, albeit from political reality.

[Elirian]

Heh, I wonder how long till your ISP blocks this site, Burg. I'm betting when someone denies holocaust.

Nah wont happen.I just always find those pro- and anti- judaean debates interesting as a political scientist. Everyone seems so inclined on takin a strong opinion, that facts seem to barely matter. Even better that the difficulty to judge those facts intersubjective does not occur to anyone and instead bashing the opposite faction is much more interesting, albeit from political reality.

Everyone wants to be a political cheerleader nowadays. It's not really about taking the best course for most people, it's about beating the bad guys and saving the day.

[Granger]

The idea that the suffering and victimization of a people in the past should be used as justification for the displacement of another race is absurd. Israel and the Zionists/Jews are forcing individuals from their homes, using their own rape as moralization. If a people or idea is incapable of surviving and coexisting with the other ideologies of the world, then that is merely a form of social evolution. That is not to say that the Jewish religion and people are incapable of existing peacefully in this world--they most definitely are. Many Western countries have freedoms that guarantee the Semites (and all others) the right to live and worship. Just as there should not be a pure German nation, there should be no pure Jewish nation. A people does not 'earn' the right to take others' land by being beaten up throughout history--you can not hold any man responsible for the sins of his father.
Now, let me clarify: I am not saying the Jews should 'gtfo' of Israel. I am saying that if they wish to live there, they need to coexist with the Arab population. Just as the Turks living in Germany should not expect to claim Germany as 'New Turkey', the Zionists in Palestine should not be claiming Palestine as their own.

While you have a valid point there i see the problem that you'll have to selectively mindwipe the whole planet to make that happen (since in areas like middle east way to many are that full of hatret that the only option left for them is to repeat the past over and over again) and in case such a technology will come into existance it'll be used for evil (take advertising as a mild example of what will happen).

[KillerofLawyers]

Why is the fate of two small countries significant? Their survival doesn't mean anything for our survival.

And there are plenty of other places in the world where suffering and conflict is the norm. I suppose the only good reason to support Israel is because they do develop some effective weapons.

[Elirian]

Their survival doesn't mean anything for our survival.

If only butterflies had no wings, the weather would always be sunny. It's simplistic to say that anything has no bearing on your survival.

Aside from which, survival alone is an animals moral imperative, not that of a man. Despite what the current trend in pop philosophy teaches Unless you aim really low of course. It's like saying 'without milk I can't have cereal, therefore all I want is milk for breakfast'. Poor analogy since you can eat cereal without milk but hopefully it conveys my meaning well enough.

Perhaps a better analogy would be 'without a bowl I can't have cereal+milk, therefore I want an empty bowl for breakfast'.

[Sarge]

Clearly I do not share the passion for history you show here, but maybe it would have been very different if this was 'closer to home for me'... I find this as interesting as watching grass grow... different strokes for different folks I suppose. (No malicious or offensive intent, just expressing my (non) opinion)

[eql]

Heh, I wonder how long till your ISP blocks this site, Burg. I'm betting when someone denies holocaust.

Everyone seems to be so inclined on takin a strong opinion, that facts seem to barely matter. Even better that the difficulty to judge those facts intersubjective does not occur to anyone and instead bashing the opposite faction is much more interesting, albeit from political reality.

ha this is so true.

Has anyone bothered to mention that it was the wwii coalition that pretty much setup israel? if they hadnt gotten so involved i think there might of been some kind of unity on that crap piece of land.

edit: after reading some of loftorbs post...

do you honestly believe that the jews are battling to survive? Israel is a rich and highly protected nation, they are pretty much untouchable and have been thriving since Israel inception.