Get better macro protection..?

[Skorm]

the resolution is so gosh darn easy to implement.

WoW has bots and macros.
ALL MMO's have bots and macros.

but you dont see ppl macroing in there

WoW-like .01% o the player macro, why ?, macro and you will get fucked in every way possible
H&H- 25-50% why ? macro and you might kill your neightboor

[Jackard]

Is it that time again already?

[Atherman]

Is it that time again already?

Ignore the check engine light and it's gonna catch up with you time and time again.

[DatOneGuy]

the resolution is so gosh darn easy to implement.

WoW has bots and macros.
ALL MMO's have bots and macros.

but you dont see ppl macroing in there

WoW-like .01% o the player macro, why ?, macro and you will get fucked in every way possible
H&H- 25-50% why ? macro and you might kill your neightboor

You don't pay as much attention to WoW as you should, the game's crap, but it's more than that.

I've played many a Korean-MMO, and if you're looking hard enough you'll find them every time.

Most larger games have detection in the bots so that when another player is spotted you automatically move, log off, switch 'channels', or stop macroing and do something to make you seem normal. HnH isn't big enough to have the same types of macros or macro 'protection' to stop you from being spotted by real players to have that level of sophistication in a macro.

Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it's not there. I could just as easily go in a house and macro in HnH, the same way I could find a nice location no one can find me on WoW.

The only difference is how far you have to dig to make said macro, if in turn it's worth doing, and whether you care about it enough to avoid others(or even have to).

With that said while you may not be able to sell things in HnH for real money, in WoW you could grind a character to 70 and sell it online for about $150 bucks, well worth the time, commitment, and now gives you a reason to jump a bunch of hurdles for something of the sort.

Due to this I hope that time isn't wasted much on HnH for things like that and that we really never get a 'black market' in that sense.

I'll draw a parallel to another MMO here, MapleStory. In MapleStory they use GameGuard (as most Korean MMOs do), this slows down computers, deletes DLLs that aren't even harmful (keyboard software that might be necessary due to extra buttons, same with mice) and requires legitimate users to redownload these file safter every use. However, up until about a year ago despite the company wasting most of their time policing (Game Masters have to be hired to do this), paying for better protection, people got around it and not only that DISABLED it (easy to do back then), since then it's been a bit harder but you can still get around it easily, you'd have to find a UCE that works properly, know what you're doing when it comes to searching for values, know a little bit of ASM typically (Not the actual language thank god, just the bit used for hacks), and you're set. Making an undetected engine was the only problem but it seems constistently it is bypassed within a week or so of hacks being out and is public, 'private' hacks go even longer( years) without getting caught. You can login to this game, not see a hacker for over a week, then go look up (if you know what you're doing) for a few hacking forums, find hacks, and get setup within 2 hours.

I frequently test to see if many Korean MMOs are hackable about twice a year, and it's rarely been more than 3hours worth of work to set the 'latest and greatest' up unless you want to make your own.

No MMO is free of bots/hacks, No MMO ever will be without a ridiculous budget to spend on detection, doing the detection themself (built into the engine not paying for something else, so that it's ad hoc), updating it themselves, policing, having a reason for people to hunt such people (and allow them to be successful), having most things server-sided (a LOT of lag).

Hell, even then WoW is still hackable, and if you read up on it's defense you'd be surprised at how hard that must have been.

--
I think I'm getting more technical than this thread ever intended to be, I'll stop responding to posts like that now before I start writing even longer walls of text.

[Lothaudus]

Pfft... You call that a wall of text?

[Atherman]

The only difference is how far you have to dig to make said macro, if in turn it's worth doing, and whether you care about it enough to avoid others(or even have to).


No MMO is free of bots/hacks, No MMO ever will be without a ridiculous budget to spend on detection, doing the detection themself (built into the engine not paying for something else, so that it's ad hoc), updating it themselves, policing, having a reason for people to hunt such people (and allow them to be successful), having most things server-sided (a LOT of lag).

I think comparing our H&H dilemma to the botters plaguing WoW isn't a fair comparison at all. Blizzard has waged an entire war on their botters and, being such a massively popular game, the botter community has struck back. Once upon time a you could just download Glider and have it auto run you around. These days it's so much more incredibly difficult, I try not to even think about what I'd have to go through to make/convince someone to give me a low risk leveling bot. The macros people are running in H&H are completely and utterly basic compared to auto-levelers gold grinders are running in WoW. Anyone can use workspace macro pro and create a memorized sequence of mouse movements/keyboard input to say, have an alt consistently eat high strength food over the course of a couple days/weeks. They can then use that alt to go destroy every structure in a large city with no risk to their main and limited time commitment. Workspace macro pro is nigh useless in WoW, the most you can do is afk Battlegrounds. (Which is extremely obvious to other players and consistently reported.)

We have people using simple macros for the simple fact, they can. WoW has people running incredibly complex macros because the simple macros people use on H&H are useless to them. Btw I'm not quoting you fully so people don't have to scroll through that all again

[Skorm]

I've played many a Korean-MMO, and if you're looking hard enough you'll find them every time.[/quote]

im not gonna show your full post, to long and will just make space on the forum
I KNOW there are macros, i know ppl still bots, but how much ? compared to H&H its nothing, WoW 1 out 100k? ( any number you like ) macro/hack/bot and they usually are caught up On H&H like 30% of the players macro, and nothing is really done about em.

[DatOneGuy]

I think comparing our H&H dilemma to the botters plaguing WoW isn't a fair comparison at all. Blizzard has waged an entire war on their botters and, being such a massively popular game, the botter community has struck back. Once upon time a you could just download Glider and have it auto run you around. These days it's so much more incredibly difficult, I try not to even think about what I'd have to go through to make/convince someone to give me a low risk leveling bot. The macros people are running in H&H are completely and utterly basic compared to auto-levelers gold grinders are running in WoW. Anyone can use workspace macro pro and create a memorized sequence of mouse movements/keyboard input to say, have an alt consistently eat high strength food over the course of a couple days/weeks. They can then use that alt to go destroy every structure in a large city with no risk to their main and limited time commitment. Workspace macro pro is nigh useless in WoW, the most you can do is afk Battlegrounds. (Which is extremely obvious to other players and consistently reported.)

We have people using simple macros for the simple fact, they can. WoW has people running incredibly complex macros because the simple macros people use on H&H are useless to them. Btw I'm not quoting you fully so people don't have to scroll through that all again

That's why I compared it to other games as well. Also a macro is more than a memorized bit of sequencing, that would mean a script. There are scripts macros and bots. Scripts typically just repeat the same action and take no input. Macros take minimal input and based on run scripts. Bots are more evolved macros that attempt to take on every aspect the macro may need to keep the player 'safe' and do a good job.

Even in WoW I'm sure I could go look up hacks right now be set within a day at max, however I don't play WoW, and never will again, it's not my cup of tea, however I have many friends that have/do and they knew of hacks because some of them did, and they still do (we talk over MSN all the time).

You won't see most hackers, in fact the only time you know there's a REAL problem is when you see them, because you can be guaranteed that anyone with some common sense will attempt to hide their hacking/botting in big games as much as possible and will not go detected at all (it's not hard to do). Typically when you actually start to SEE people is when there are too many people with it and it's so easy to setup that any old 'script kiddie' can login to the site and set it up without any help or questions needing to be asked and isn't told or has the common sense to go and do it in private.

I've played many a Korean-MMO, and if you're looking hard enough you'll find them every time.

im not gonna show your full post, to long and will just make space on the forum
I KNOW there are macros, i know ppl still bots, but how much ? compared to H&H its nothing, WoW 1 out 100k? ( any number you like ) macro/hack/bot and they usually are caught up On H&H like 30% of the players macro, and nothing is really done about em.[/quote]
A lot more than 1 in 100k, at least 1 in 500~1,000 I'm willing to bed. I haven't played WoW enough to give numbers, however I've played almost every F2P MMO that exists, and most with active (not necessarily big, simply active) communitues tend to have about a minimum of a 1 in 1,000 hacker to player ratio, that's a minimum and very few have been that low, it's more commonly around 1 in 100~400.

A real number will never come about as the majority have enough sense to keep themselves completley hidden.

[Atherman]

Even in WoW I'm sure I could go look up hacks right now be set within a day at max, however I don't play WoW, and never will again, it's not my cup of tea, however I have many friends that have/do and they knew of hacks because some of them did, and they still do (we talk over MSN all the time).

You won't see most hackers, in fact the only time you know there's a REAL problem is when you see them, because you can be guaranteed that anyone with some common sense will attempt to hide their hacking/botting in big games as much as possible and will not go detected at all (it's not hard to do). Typically when you actually start to SEE people is when there are too many people with it and it's so easy to setup that any old 'script kiddie' can login to the site and set it up without any help or questions needing to be asked and isn't told or has the common sense to go and do it in private.

A lot more than 1 in 100k, at least 1 in 500~1,000 I'm willing to bed. I haven't played WoW enough to give numbers,

As someone that's put over 5 months of in game time on just one character in WoW I can assure you, there are no places for botters to hide and they are a rare occurrence. I've seen three in what, how many years has it been since initial release? They can't just pick up and leave or log off when another character walks by because the traffic those leveling areas get are quite high. Some have attempts to seem realistic, with auto responses or emotes, but they only fool the most foolish of people. I really think it's an uneducated guess to say you could have a working auto-leveler that won't get you banned within the hour on WoW. Their Warden system is a beast. As for Maplestory, their hacking situation was beyond control last time I played a few years back. It wasn't a matter of botting/macroing, it was a matter of players full on changing the game mechanics to do impossible stunts. The equivalent of a H&H character being able to chop down ten trees at once. Bots would kill entire screens of monsters in one second and teleport all the loot into the inventory the next second without moving an inch.








The fact is we're completely off topic.
Right now the standard in H&H is that if you don't macro you're not playing right.
To be a competitive PvPer/Raider you NEED to macro, because everyone else is.

I'm not sure if that's what Jorb/Loftar are aiming for.

[DatOneGuy]

As someone that's put over 5 months of in game time on just one character in WoW I can assure you, there are no places for botters to hide and they are a rare occurrence. I've seen three in what, how many years has it been since initial release? They can't just pick up and leave or log off when another character walks by because the traffic those leveling areas get are quite high. Some have attempts to seem realistic, with auto responses or emotes, but they only fool the most foolish of people. I really think it's an uneducated guess to say you could have a working auto-leveler that won't get you banned within the hour on WoW. Their Warden system is a beast. As for Maplestory, their hacking situation was beyond control last time I played a few years back. It wasn't a matter of botting/macroing, it was a matter of players full on changing the game mechanics to do impossible stunts. The equivalent of a H&H character being able to chop down ten trees at once. Bots would kill entire screens of monsters in one second and teleport all the loot into the inventory the next second without moving an inch.


The fact is we're completely off topic.
Right now the standard in H&H is that if you don't macro you're not playing right.
To be a competitive PvPer/Raider you NEED to macro, because everyone else is.

I'm not sure if that's what Jorb/Loftar are aiming for.

Yeah, because those are hacks not just bots. Last I played WoW I saw one hacker, I only played for a day. I looked up the hacks they were easy to setup, this was back in December. I tried them and had them working, but I quit because I ahted the graphics, I only tried it becausea friend dared me to since I openly stated how much I hate WoW several times.

You're right though this is slightly off topic, right now it feels necessary, and hopefully soon it won't be.