Get better macro protection..?

[theTrav]

Right now the standard in H&H is that if you don't macro you're not playing right.

So says you. I'm enjoying the game and have never touched a macro (unless you count the auto crafting I made about 4 hours before loftar made it work server side)

To be a competitive PvPer/Raider you NEED to macro, because everyone else is.

Because haven and hearth is totally about PvP and Raiding, there is no other point to the game

I'm not sure if that's what Jorb/Loftar are aiming for.

I agree with you on this point, but I still think you don't know what you're talking about

Perhaps the fact that the player is on for five days straight might be an indication. Haaa. It's an especially big indication if their character hasn't logged off for longer then that.

Back in the day there was a guy called Raephire who was never offline (outside of server crashes). He didn't macro, he had multiple people playing on the one account in shifts(different time zones)

I repeat. You don't know what you're talking about.

[DatOneGuy]

Back in the day there was a guy called Raephire who was never offline (outside of server crashes). He didn't macro, he had multiple people playing on the one account in shifts(different time zones)

I repeat. You don't know what you're talking about.

I've seen this in many games, and if I could would actually do tihs. A thousand times better than any macroing, only problem is getting multiple people who won't also want their own accounts. I've done it in other games, always beats any botting if done right.

[Atherman]

So says you. I'm enjoying the game and have never touched a macro (unless you count the auto crafting I made about 4 hours before loftar made it work server side)

The game is fun as you build up your resources, your settlement, and your character. But when it comes down to the final test, the finale where you decide to either go to war with someone or are unwillingly raided, you're going to lose to these macroers. I could rally my entire town and watch as each of us are one shotted, as our walls are rammed down and all our work obliterated. Would we have a fighting chance? Of course not, because we didn't macro.

Because haven and hearth is totally about PvP and Raiding, there is no other point to the game

Go look in the new Symbel thread. Raiders are being buffed while peaceful farmers, like you obviously are,are staying entirely the same. You're at the mercy of any and all macro abusing players. They can break into your home, take anything from you they want, and leave your corpse rotting in the grass. That is, assuming you don't PvP as you claim. If knowing that all your work is in the hands of another player doesn't bother you, not because they worked for it, but because they used a script, then I'm not sure what your play style is. It's not the norm though.

I agree with you on this point, but I still think you don't know what you're talking about

Seems like you're contradicting yourself there. I'm not even sure what to respond to that.

Back in the day there was a guy called Raephire who was never offline (outside of server crashes). He didn't macro, he had multiple people playing on the one account in shifts(different time zones)

I repeat. You don't know what you're talking about.

You're defending macro abusing players with the 'But they COULD be online for 90 hours straight chopping trees.' argument? It's a complete fallacy, just because one person in the history of H&H had their character manually played constantly does not by any means justify the abuse by macroers. "Well one time someone was put to death when they were innocent! That means everyone that's going to be put to death is innocent!"



You haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.
I repeat. You haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.

[Elirian]

Back in the day there was a guy called Raephire who was never offline (outside of server crashes). He didn't macro, he had multiple people playing on the one account in shifts(different time zones)

Which is another activity that is banned in many games. Sharing account information is actually bannable in most pay to play mmos. Every single one that I can think of off the top of my head. Perhaps you should inform yourself a little more before throwing around the 'you don't know what you're talking about' comments. Or just refrain from them altogether in the interest of constructive discussion.

Sorry, I realised, travian and similar browser games that function on micropayment schedules often allow multiple players on one account. I should have said MMORPGs, or subscription based MMOs.

[jorb]

Back in the day there was a guy called Raephire who was never offline (outside of server crashes). He didn't macro, he had multiple people playing on the one account in shifts(different time zones)

Which is another activity that is banned in many games.

And, slowly but surely, the police state bloats.

[Atherman]

Back in the day there was a guy called Raephire who was never offline (outside of server crashes). He didn't macro, he had multiple people playing on the one account in shifts(different time zones)

Which is another activity that is banned in many games.

And, slowly but surely, the police state bloats.

You oppose macros but defend them in an anti macro thread?
If you feel macroers are at home in H&H then we should just start a sub forum devoted towards the scripts, so everyone can get in on the cheating.

[Elirian]

Back in the day there was a guy called Raephire who was never offline (outside of server crashes). He didn't macro, he had multiple people playing on the one account in shifts(different time zones)

Which is another activity that is banned in many games.

And, slowly but surely, the police state bloats.

I understanding opposing growth of regulation on principle, and I understand that what appears to one party to be reasonable concern can appear to another to be meaningless. I am not arguing for greater restrictions to be placed on a game in alpha, which I realise I haven't made clear. What I am doing is saying that allowing people to abuse game mechanics to improve their performance in the game itself costs players, and is something that will conjure a lot of negative emotion among people who have already become invested in the game, if they then discover that others have been doing something they regard as cheating and will never suffer any repercussion for gaining an advantage through shady methods, as evidenced in this thread.

It's very easy to say 'I'm opposed to heavy controls'. It's quite another to be forthright and upfront about it with a comment on the homepage explaining that macroing is allowed, multiple players on one account are allowed, and playing multiple accounts simultaneously is allowed. That would be a demonstration of conviction, since so many people would clearly close that tab without a second glance.

There is no additional freedom created by either allowing or disallowing it. There are the same number of outcomes. If abusing game mechanics, by for example, taking advantage of the interface used to play the game (a program run on a computer) in order to automate your play while you sleep, or having multiple parties take the role of one participant in the game (which would be highly amusing if it were allowed in say, a tennis match), is allowed, then you have the choice: abuse game mechanics, or lose. If abusing game mechanics is disallowed, you have the choice, don't abuse them, or risk the consequences. Neither situation provides any additional choices.

[spectacle]

Atherman, you seem to think the most powerful players are powerful because they macro, this is just plain wrong. They are powerful because they play 10+ hours every day, and are in communities of similar players that support each other so they always have the best of all available goods. Some of them macro on the side, but it's not so important, a couple hours of hunting can get your more LP than an entire day of macroing.

If you, as you say, only play for a couple of hours every day, then you will never ever be able to compete with more dedicated players, whether or not they, or you, use macros when not playing. Either deal with this; build a brick wall, make alliances for defence, or go play Farmville instead.

[DatOneGuy]

Listen, you guys are making this a lot more complicated than it need be.

Policing in game takes time, effort, and saps the energy out of developers who could be otherwise doing neat things like this recent Symbel update.

It's an alpha, there's really only a few options here
1)They waste time on silly macro protection, it'll work for a bit or it won't, either way wasted time eespecially for an alpha, it's also very boring work.
2)It goes on as it is, you shut up, tell people you know who macro they should stop and read, hell tell them they 'might get punished' if it makes them stop, and point them out (preferably with some sort of proof) and perhaps someone ingame (not a dev) will decide to play world police on the matter and take them out.

If you have a problem in the game it's usually fixable by you, post your complaint (don't whine for hours), perhaps ask for help and attempt to at least put your own solution in place until something happens. For things like this that are very morality-based, it's usually heated debate about silly things back and forth.

Don't ask what your devs can do for you, ask what you can do for your devs.



As for the multiple people per account, it's used to get around many things at the moment, such as 1 Lawspeaker, not having a single person have to deal with personal claim access, etc. While it may or may not be used for such things, and whether it is or isn't in other games is completley irrevelant.

In the end when it comes to macros, hacks, bots, shared accounts, and other morality issues, it's up to the developers not you, speak your piece, but don't keep trying to 'drill it in' no one's going to be influenced on such heavy matters simply with text.


I'd also like to point out that a player who plays 4 hours a day and macros the other 20 will be a lot weaker than a player who plays 12 and doesn't macro at all.

The maximum LP you can obtain from a loom/dream catcher is 55 LP/10 seconds, thus 19k LP/hr (This is with 360% LP, can be recalculated for higher but isn't important, everything is based on 360% LP), however hunting or harvesting my crops I can easily obtain over 50k LP/hr, when hunting closer to 100k LP/hr and I don't even have good enough stats to simply 1 hit things with a sling yet.

Macroing as it stands is only beneficial if you play all you can and macro when you can't be online. The people I know who decided to go heavy macroing and macro 10+ hours and online be online 2~4 are way behind me already, and we've only been doing this for a week or two.

[Elirian]

Yes D1G, you've made it very clear you like progress quest so long as it keeps getting bells and whistles added. You've also made it clear that in your opinion, it's no big deal, and there's nothing anyone could possibly do about it anyway.

I like to think I have now made it clear that I don't think they should be policing game mechanic abusers in an alpha game. For one they're in development, and thus should be concentrating on developing. For two, it allows them to determine what kind of abuse people will try to use if the game ever goes live.

I'd be interested to hear why you think they should police it if you think they should, but you clearly don't, so if you could stop repeating the same post worded differently every few hours that would be awesome, thanks. It's getting in the way of discussing things like artificial freedoms, or game vs mechanic.

I'm particularly interested in the game vs mechanic discussion. Generally when a player on a football field elbows someone from the other team in the face, we don't look up to him for getting away with it because the referee was looking the other way. We don't blame the game for not having enough referees. We accept that it is a limitation of the system that the game can only have a limited number of referees, and expect players not to take advantage of that fact. We expect them to play the game, rather than the system.