Muslim extreamists even affect haven and hearth

[Seizure]

written by human believers, not the gods themselves.

I would take this moment to point out if any sort of god did send this message, he would be intelligent enough to know weather or not this message would be twisted into what it is, and be smart enough to know how to send a message to individuals who would send his message as is... Instead of the bullshit convert or die we have.

Then again, I see religion as nothing more than the precursor to Government.

[Dzedajus]

quaran and the bible were written by human believers, not the gods themselves.

Flashback to the age when the religion was born:
Peasants had nothing really nothing to do apart from farming and shit. To keep them amused they raised a bet who will make stupid story and attract the most people who will believe it. One of those peasants wasn't ordinary and so he didn't just make up a story, he wrote a whole book about and spread it to nearby village. Many laughs were had.
And thats the story how you are getting trolled to this day.

[btaylor]

Oh golly tonky, there is so much in it mandating killing nonbelievers or people that leave the religion. Good luck interpreting these verses, your work is still ahead of you : ).
Qur'an (4:89),(9:11-12),(2:217),(9:73-74),(88:21),(5:54),and(9:66)

Surah 4:89 -"Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you find them"

its just one of the translations or interpretations, baby. both the quaran and the bible were written by human believers, not the gods themselves.

You don't get it, if muslims are murdering because of these verses, and you can't distinguish what the god wrote (doubt a god wrote it) and what the men wrote, then the whole book is compromised, because it is full of immoral actions, and blatant copying from other previous religions.

This is what I said earlier about the world not being black and white as you want it to be.

Do you TRULY AND HONESTLY BELIEVE that people are murdering because a book tells them to? Come on. People aren't stupid. We know good from bad. They aren't murdering because the book says so, they are murdering because they are using it as an excuse. In other words, they are feigning ignorance.

Even if the Quran didn't have that verse in there I bet you all my worldly possessions that they would still be murdering regardless.

[MagicManICT]

You don't get it, if muslims are murdering because of these verses, and you can't distinguish what the god wrote (doubt a god wrote it) and what the men wrote, then the whole book is compromised, because it is full of immoral actions, and blatant copying from other previous religions.

Can you really distinguish between what God (gods) wrote and what was penned by man and what someone in a "religious fervor" "trance" whatever put down? All religious texts are compromised because they've been copied over and over and translated inaccurately.

Whether there is or isn't higher powers that created or shaped the world doesn't matter any more. What matters is how we treat each other now. After all, wasn't that the effective message of Christ? He just held out the carrot of "Heaven" and the stick of "Judgement" to make us behave. Real humans don't need carrots and sticks to behave properly, only animals do. Are we animals or are we (hu)men?

I know other religions do some fucked up shit too, but right now we are talking about the muslim one, and how they are censuring everything that MIGHT insult their violent poisonous beliefs.

But it is really all just the same argument.

[overtyped]

Do you TRULY AND HONESTLY BELIEVE that people are murdering because a book tells them to? Come on. People aren't stupid. We know good from bad. They aren't murdering because the book says so, they are murdering because they are using it as an excuse. In other words, they are feigning ignorance.

Even if the Quran didn't have that verse in there I bet you all my worldly possessions that they would still be murdering regardless.

oh.... you are sooooo very wrong. Do you know what honor killings are? If you think normal people don't solely because of their religion, you don't know much.

[btaylor]

Do you TRULY AND HONESTLY BELIEVE that people are murdering because a book tells them to? Come on. People aren't stupid. We know good from bad. They aren't murdering because the book says so, they are murdering because they are using it as an excuse. In other words, they are feigning ignorance.

Even if the Quran didn't have that verse in there I bet you all my worldly possessions that they would still be murdering regardless.

oh.... you are sooooo very wrong. Do you know what honor killings are?

Yeah, I know what they are. They can also be contributed to peer pressure. You know that they threaten to kill your family if you don't partake in a suicide bombing? It has nothing to do with religion, therefore your argument is flawed.

[overtyped]

Do you TRULY AND HONESTLY BELIEVE that people are murdering because a book tells them to? Come on. People aren't stupid. We know good from bad. They aren't murdering because the book says so, they are murdering because they are using it as an excuse. In other words, they are feigning ignorance.

Even if the Quran didn't have that verse in there I bet you all my worldly possessions that they would still be murdering regardless.

oh.... you are sooooo very wrong. Do you know what honor killings are?

Yeah, I know what they are. They can also be contributed to peer pressure. You know that they threaten to kill your family if you don't partake in a suicide bombing? It has nothing to do with religion, therefore your argument is flawed.

many many of them are willing, they think what they are doing is just, because they truly believe god is on their side.

[Thijssnl]

I think 'holy books' are misinterpreted (willfully in some cases?).
There are also groups within each religion who disagree with the way other believers in the same religion do things because of the religions respective book and feel it should be used as a guideline not the definitive way to live by.

[overtyped]

I think 'holy books' are misinterpreted (willfully in some cases?).
There are also groups within each religion who disagree with the way other believers in the same religion do things because of the religions respective book and feel it should be used as a guideline not the definitive way to live by.

That doesn't save us from the large population of people that think the books are literally true, and will kill in it's name. Religion in general just has to end, and I think that already happening in a lot of places, for example, more governments are becoming secular(separation between church and state) really the only way to have freedom. We are moving away from these immoral books slowly, just wish it was a little faster.

[Tonkyhonk]

You don't get it, if muslims are murdering because of these verses, and you can't distinguish what the god wrote (doubt a god wrote it) and what the men wrote, then the whole book is compromised, because it is full of immoral actions, and blatant copying from other previous religions.

okay, how about this argument then?
when you are muslim and you reject it, you may be killed for giving bad influences to other muslims. (like america decided to murder osama.)
however, once you stopped being a muslim, you are not muslim any more, which gives no reason for other muslims to kill you, because you are already out of sharia basically, as long as you dont talk about it in public to give other muslims bad influences.
also, quran 2nd chapter, 256 (gosh, i actually had to search it lol) says "There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion."

p.s.
wow, yeah, ppl are posting so fast!