The Death of a Treeplanter

[Monkeytofu]

This game isn't simulating any time period in modern real world, no major governments exist, no moral structures exist, no systems of law.

Technically there is a justice system in place and a moral structure. Ranging creates a very specific way to create 'justice'. Mostly this results in death, but it does not have to, players just choose killing the poor sod. The individual morals of players base how they play and how others play. Morality is subjective until it becomes part of a community, in which case it starts to become a collective moral code (somewhat like a city in contemporary times). The community on the forum and within World 4 have generated a moral code for the game that is rather interesting in form.
The moral structures are in place, but they differ from village to village considering there is no real life repercussion for dying, vengeance, or griefing besides spending countless days of time pushing learning points into the character like Sally Struthers forces powdered milk down the throat of a starving child.

having the ability to kill isn't a justice system. There are only moral structures within villages and nothing even big enough to warrant actually calling it a system.

I guess if you count "punishement for everything is death" as a justice system, I'll give you that.

[Mitudev]

having the ability to kill isn't a justice system. There are only moral structures within villages and nothing even big enough to warrant actually calling it a system.

I guess if you count "punishement for everything is death" as a justice system, I'll give you that.

A system is a composition of multiple different parts, so if you have more than yourself in a village, it is a system. Within the members of the community at large is a system. A few thousand people definitely qualifies as a system.
Having the ability to kill is not a justice system. The justice system is an ethical imaginary based on what one deems morally right. Justice unto itself is an ethical moral code for what is deemed as proper, good, and right. Punishment is part of justice. You can exile people, shun them, take all their stuff, or leave them stranded as punishment. Just so happens that a lot of folks use killing as their favorite means of justice.

[Lilburne]

This game isn't simulating any time period in modern real world, no major governments exist, no moral structures exist, no systems of law.

Technically there is a justice system in place and a moral structure. Ranging creates a very specific way to create 'justice'. Mostly this results in death, but it does not have to, players just choose killing the poor sod. The individual morals of players base how they play and how others play. Morality is subjective until it becomes part of a community, in which case it starts to become a collective moral code (somewhat like a city in contemporary times). The community on the forum and within World 4 have generated a moral code for the game that is rather interesting in form.
The moral structures are in place, but they differ from village to village considering there is no real life repercussion for dying, vengeance, or griefing besides spending countless days of time pushing learning points into the character like Sally Struthers forces powdered milk down the throat of a starving child.

having the ability to kill isn't a justice system. There are only moral structures within villages and nothing even big enough to warrant actually calling it a system.

I guess if you count "punishement for everything is death" as a justice system, I'll give you that.

Well arguably the fact real persons are playing the game and interacting seems to strongly suggest there's some sort of 'moral structure' (arguably, utilitarianism, Kantianism and Virtue ethics, the 'big three' are all just as aplicable in real life, though as no one actually dies its not quite a serious, though still the idea common to all three that its important people can pursue their personal projects rings though because people do invest a lot of time in it) and the fact people are discussing justice at all means the question "what is justice in HnH" is intelligible and has some sort of target.

Generally speaking the distinction between what people can do to each other and what people should do to each other is just as 'valid' as in real life.

Combined with the fact that if you take the line that morality qua morality is not exhausted by social convention, which I do and think a pretty solid case can be made for it then very general vague principles like the golden rule and such.

The Hobbsean moral relativism that you've been espousing, well... its kinda out of date to be honest. Not 'wrong' per say it just saying that in the absence of any codified or implicit legal structure there is no morality... well.. it just looks a little like putting the cart before the horse.


Overall though this is just a game, yet whats drawn me to HnH is that fact that it is such a 'sandbox' for ethics, morality and politics.

[LimaZulu]

Well arguably the fact real persons are playing the game and interacting seems to strongly suggest there's some sort of 'moral structure' (arguably, utilitarianism, Kantianism and Virtue ethics, the 'big three' are all just as aplicable in real life, though as no one actually dies its not quite a serious, though still the idea common to all three that its important people can pursue their personal projects rings though because people do invest a lot of time in it) and the fact people are discussing justice at all means the question "what is justice in HnH" is intelligible and has some sort of target.

Generally speaking the distinction between what people can do to each other and what people should do to each other is just as 'valid' as in real life.

Combined with the fact that if you take the line that morality qua morality is not exhausted by social convention, which I do and think a pretty solid case can be made for it then very general vague principles like the golden rule and such.

The Hobbsean moral relativism that you've been espousing, well... its kinda out of date to be honest. Not 'wrong' per say it just saying that in the absence of any codified or implicit legal structure there is no morality... well.. it just looks a little like putting the cart before the horse.


Overall though this is just a game, yet whats drawn me to HnH is that fact that it is such a 'sandbox' for ethics, morality and politics.

My IA self enjoyed this.

[Lilburne]

Well arguably the fact real persons are playing the game and interacting seems to strongly suggest there's some sort of 'moral structure' (arguably, utilitarianism, Kantianism and Virtue ethics, the 'big three' are all just as aplicable in real life, though as no one actually dies its not quite a serious, though still the idea common to all three that its important people can pursue their personal projects rings though because people do invest a lot of time in it) and the fact people are discussing justice at all means the question "what is justice in HnH" is intelligible and has some sort of target.

Generally speaking the distinction between what people can do to each other and what people should do to each other is just as 'valid' as in real life.

Combined with the fact that if you take the line that morality qua morality is not exhausted by social convention, which I do and think a pretty solid case can be made for it then very general vague principles like the golden rule and such.

The Hobbsean moral relativism that you've been espousing, well... its kinda out of date to be honest. Not 'wrong' per say it just saying that in the absence of any codified or implicit legal structure there is no morality... well.. it just looks a little like putting the cart before the horse.


Overall though this is just a game, yet whats drawn me to HnH is that fact that it is such a 'sandbox' for ethics, morality and politics.

My IA self enjoyed this.

IA?

[LimaZulu]

Well arguably the fact real persons are playing the game and interacting seems to strongly suggest there's some sort of 'moral structure' (arguably, utilitarianism, Kantianism and Virtue ethics, the 'big three' are all just as aplicable in real life, though as no one actually dies its not quite a serious, though still the idea common to all three that its important people can pursue their personal projects rings though because people do invest a lot of time in it) and the fact people are discussing justice at all means the question "what is justice in HnH" is intelligible and has some sort of target.

Generally speaking the distinction between what people can do to each other and what people should do to each other is just as 'valid' as in real life.

Combined with the fact that if you take the line that morality qua morality is not exhausted by social convention, which I do and think a pretty solid case can be made for it then very general vague principles like the golden rule and such.

The Hobbsean moral relativism that you've been espousing, well... its kinda out of date to be honest. Not 'wrong' per say it just saying that in the absence of any codified or implicit legal structure there is no morality... well.. it just looks a little like putting the cart before the horse.


Overall though this is just a game, yet whats drawn me to HnH is that fact that it is such a 'sandbox' for ethics, morality and politics.

My IA self enjoyed this.

IA?

International Affairs. Was PoliSci, but got bored.

[Oskatat]

basically said, right now the world belongs to raiders and bandits. as soon as villages grow into towns and cities, people will start patrolling the coutryside not to protect you but because they dont want bandits near. there will be save areas and hazardous areas. that being said, if you know some subterfuge and stealth basics, you can pass unmolested. make your place hard to find, dont let anyone see the riches you have, make sure you can survive a hit or so, when in danger stay within your home and log out. stay there a day or 2, by that time they'll be bored with the whole thing. they may be back, but nothing in life is sure

[onnings]

Post your location ITT or send me a PM, if you live near me I will track the scents if I get free time.

The scents have all but faded now, but the perpetrator was probably from one of the local asian towns. North center grid. They tend to raid the area occationally, it seems.

The area is rich with murder, assault and trespassing / theft scents in general, if you feel nosy.

[erozaxx]

I rly enjoyed this thread. Keep it going. I share the oppnion with the others. The system is very close to europe at the start of feudalism era. Death was very common punishment, even when you were inocent, if someone stronger in force or stronger in social relations pointed at you, you were tortured and dead, no matter where the truth was. If you were unlucky and loner, witcher trial came in place and you were incinerated. if you do not want to be an easy target, become part of the stronger (ideallythe strongest) community or become a strong individual. but anyway, being hermit is not for beginners in this game, as most newbies wrongly assume to be. Hermit life is one of the biggest challenge here. I mean SUCCESSFUL hermit life.

[Eemerald]

i dont think its necessary to be aprt of a village though it nice to have decent people around you.

i started alone, and got to know the people around the area i built in. They help me and i help them as much as i can.

when i had someone cosntantly stealing frommy place my russian neighbour came and took the scent and tracked the guy to warn him. never had anything stolen since.

since then though just for personal security i built my plaisade. and after that offered newbs access to my plaisade just to help me out and to help them out like i was when starting out.

it's definetly doable. some areas have serious douchebags though