Quantities of raid topics in Congress

[Grog]

haha, 6 hours sleep and this topic is full of bitching too

anyway, where was the "foe"button again?

[SeanPan]

Oh I dunno, just about everything that can be used against people that wouldn't actually make any sense doing, at least to people that played the game properly. Building houses in front of gates, palisading people in for the hell of it, even if you aren't getting anything out of it. It's people like this, that do things unprovoked and without any logical reason that baffles me to how these people could possibly make decent people in the real world.

I would not make too many inferences on the actual morality or the nature of individuals based purely on their in-game behavior. I have found one truth: In years of gaming, I find that good organizers and planners in video game worlds tend to be good organizers and planners in the real world; however, that has nothing at all to do with how they choose to play the game.

Some of the most intelligent people I've met online were aggressive players in MMOs, who deeply relished the challenge of finding any advantage that could be provided for them.

Of course, we can all agree that building houses or explicitly exploiting the game is wrong. But then again, their actions also call attention upon it and hopefully will allow a developer to address the issue. If you see programming as a body of work, and such exploits as unfortunate bugs, then they are simply exposing the bugs for troubleshooting. That said, they /should/ report it and those who do not, and seek to benefit from it, are essentially cheaters.

It doesn't serve any function toward DEVELOPMENT. This behavior is completely destructive and the only possible benefit obtained from it is purely for the satisfaction of the person doing it. If you've got nothing positive to contribute to a gaming community such as this, where people pour weeks worth of their real-life time into doing something that they enjoy, then you should play a game where someone's efforts aren't nearly entirely wiped from the face of the server (literally) when you feel the need to be a spiteful, hateful person.

This is categorically untrue.

As lone individuals get picked off, humilated and harmed by negative forces, then they are forced to find ways of compensating. The actual presence of Viking raiders and invaders, for example, eventually was the catalyst for King Alfred the Great to form a navy and organize a native English defense. Likewise, the presence of negatory natural forces is why humans at all have banded together and adapted to a social lifestyle to combat the unpleasant realities of cold, hunger and the like.

Conflict may very well creates development; in a dynamic world, each injury may instead inspire and stir the birth of a new concept. Development should certainly not be expected to merely be direct relationship between time elapsed and complexity of community; even Europe historically had been plunged into a dark age after a period of higher social and technological complexity.

Think of it this way. A group of people are building a sandcastle on the beach, then some 13 year old kid comes and kicks it down. Does this kid know better? For the love of god, he's 13, he damn well should know better.
Why did he do it? No reason other than the pleasure of knowing he destroyed someone elses work to get kicks out of it.
Was he taught to act this way? Of course not, his parents would be ashamed of him, but of course, he doesn't care, he's a cool rebel kid.
Does the sandcastle really matter in the end? No, that was just some artwork people were having fun with on the beach.
Does that make it any different? no.

As Jorb noted, this is where you punch the sucker in the face and he learns quickly to associate kicking down sandcastles(pleasure) with pneumatic nosebloods(pain). As you can see, violence both begats and resolves conflict.

[MikeySix]

Why are you taking it so personally, MikeySix? pvp is a huge part of the game and it's the main conflict-resolution mechanic. There's no point holding the moral high ground if it got you killed because you expected someone else not to wreck your shit for fun or because they could. If anything griefers want a response like that.

On the original topic, more players = more new people who aren't prepared for how hardcore H&H can be and the smaller world is pushing them into the sights of more aggressive griefers. They're still expecting some kind of gameplay safety net be handed to them like in other games. Also the big old factions are keeping quiet until they're established (not looking at anyone in particular) so only newbie conflict is making its way onto Congress.

This behavior is completely destructive and the only possible benefit obtained from it is purely for the satisfaction of the person doing it. If you've got nothing positive to contribute to a gaming community such as this, where people pour weeks worth of their real-life time into doing something that they enjoy, then you should play a game where someone's efforts aren't nearly entirely wiped from the face of the server (literally) when you feel the need to be a spiteful, hateful person.

What if someone enjoys pouring weeks worth of real life time into their attempt to wreck your efforts? The big raiders village work HARD to become strong and survive. Why is their "destructive fun" and up-front pvp/defense as conflict resolution less valid than your own "constructive fun" and passive-aggressive persuasion/whining?

I take it personally because, believe it or not, there are people like me out there without a voice and who don't stand up for their opinion. I stand for those people. I stand for people who, believe it or not, do not enjoy their work being wrecked by 14 year olds playing a cool pvp game at the library in their spare time. Believe it or not, this game is not "all about pvp". Believe it or not, if everyone actually worked together, not only in the game, but in the world, it could actually benefit everybody instead of a few people. Believe it or not, there are people, like me, who would argue this, for countless hours, even though they know for a fact it wouldn't get them anywhere. But they don't, because they have given up trying to get the point across to people like you, who think that griefing is an "important part of this game".

I can tell you one thing, this board in particular would have a lot less participation if it wasn't due to griefers. Is that a bad thing? You decide. Believe it or not, though, there are communities that positively thrive without this sort of behavior.

As Jorb noted, this is where you punch the sucker in the face and he learns quickly to associate kicking down sandcastles(pleasure) with pneumatic nosebloods(pain). As you can see, violence both begats and resolves conflict.

There are still the Bart Simpsons in this world that do not learn from their mistakes. (He keeps touching the burner even though he keeps getting burned every time he touches it).

Or perhaps they just don't care, and derive some sort of pleasure from causing pain to people. Perhaps they do this to vent some sort of anxiety into a society with no real repercussions. Sure, they get their character killed. Big deal to them, right? It's just a game, afterall. Perhaps this is what murderers and serial killers also think. Hey, we only live once, lets enjoy it and kill people for fun, to vent our angers on people who have done nothing wrong.

[Igglebert]

What makes you so sure they want you as their "voice"?

[MikeySix]

What makes you so sure they want you as their "voice"?

I don't care if they do or not. They aren't on this forums defending themselves, are they? No, they have already quit this game and moved on, or become so spiteful against that which they hate that they joined in doing it themselves. I won't, though. I will continue voicing my opinion, futile or not. And I will never become a griefer. Doing so means taking things out on someone else that never deserved it in the first place.

[SeanPan]

I take it personally because, believe it or not, there are people like me out there without a voice and who don't stand up for their opinion. I stand for those people.

Good for you. I am like that as well; however, the fact that you are announcing it may rather challenge any notion of humility.

I stand for people who, believe it or not, do not enjoy their work being wrecked by 14 year olds playing a cool pvp game at the library in their spare time. Believe it or not, this game is not "all about pvp".

You do not get metal weapons, good quality armor and high skills by playing in your spare time.

Believe it or not, if everyone actually worked together, not only in the game, but in the world, it could actually benefit everybody instead of a few people. Believe it or not, there are people, like me, who would argue this, for countless hours, even though they know for a fact it wouldn't get them anywhere. But they don't, because they have given up trying to get the point across to people like you, who think that griefing is an "important part of this game".

Maybe everyone overall would be better, but not to the same relative extent. One of my ambitions in the real world, for example, is to someday own a chest with gold bars and jewelry; a frivilous but deeply personal achievement. I would hope to do so by owning houses and renting them out for wealth: if I gave them away or lowered their rent so that it only covered my mortgage payments, I would not be able to accomplish that desire.

In game, I'm sure there are players who have similar motivations for their characters.

[Onionfighter]

I have forgotten what this argument was about.

[SeanPan]

I have forgotten what this argument was about.

Redheads or blondes? How to choose.

[TeckXKnight]

Wow, this degraded from an actual discussion into a whinefest through the power of a single White Knight, Mikey Six. That is amazing. I'm utterly speechless at how clueless you are on the mechanics of this game and how much you're all talk, I really am. It's like you've only been playing the game for two or three weeks and someone gave you a wedgie and now you've decided that WEDGIES ARE ILLEGAL. When you learn the art of storycraft and can actually wow and win hearts with your epic tales, I'll stop laughing at you. As it is, you're a newbie who just bought ranging hoping to change the world with a stone axe and 20 MC.
I mean, it's not like this game was designed so that you could trespass, steal, vandalize, and attack other people. Heaven forbid ever raising a finger against someone else, amirite? What kind of vile people would ever utilize skills and abilities programmed into the game to gain an advantage over other people, resolve social conflicts, and spread their influence. Eegads, what a terrible thought.

Now, I'm a ranger myself for whatever region I fall into and I'll protect my village and our neighbors to the death against all that would steal from us, threaten us, or bring anyone harm. I still can't take you seriously. It's just beyond words. You're just antagonistic towards Everyone, especially the most upstanding members of HnH. Who are you hoping to win to your side? Are you just doing this to psyche yourself up? There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to your words or actions, you're just slinging insults around at everyone, because clearly we're all bad people and we perform horrific atrocities in real life on a daily basis.

Keep on trucking little guy, one day you'll stop a criminal I'm sure. Then you can be elated on this forum and dazzle us with pix and stories, attempting to instill your morals into us. Until then, tone it down.

[Igglebert]

I think this thread is now about the second comming of Christ and how he is going to voice his opinion on griefers but not actually do anything about them.