What's wrong with people?

[burgingham]

I disagree that it should ALWAYS be possible for people to trash and kill on other's claims. This might be the charm of the game for you, but I am under the impression that it is no charm, rather a big negative to quite a lot of people.

Then you are playing the wrong game. Jorb has made it clear more than one time that in a sandbox game like this it is not an option to drive the game in the direction you are suggesting.

Also, in admitting that this is the charm of the game for you, and disagreeing with some form of retaliation rules, you admit also that you like to trash people's stuff for no reason, which seems to contradict your earlier argument that you do not conduct, or even believe in the existence of senseless griefing.

Trashing stuff / killing for no reason on other's claim seems to exactly fit the term 'senseless griefing'

This sir is bullshit. You are making things up here I never said.

Also: scents...

[Kasakun]

I disagree. Come on, the game is called "HAVEN and Hearth" - so far, I haven't seen any place at all that could be considered safe haven. I know it's been said before, but is it really feasible to test a game which has a playerbase that actively (or passively) works against an influx of new testers? The thing about testing is somehow that even players who know absolutely nothing of the game are supposed to stumble upon issues that have been previously overlooked. A stagnant playerbase makes things like that less likely to be stumbled upon.

I don't think it's too much to ask for some sort of "limit" on the difference between players initiating combat could be - say, a person can't attack someone that has a fixed percentage of total LP invested less than him, or something - unless the lowbie actively provokes the senior player. Sort of "flagging" yourself for player versus player actions, or whatever. Even if it's only possible for players below a certain LP treshold, whatever - the game desperately needs a way to get newbies cuddled enough to stay for a bit longer, not just stubborn/stupid sods like those of us who actually stay and make the best of the situation.

As for the "you're playing the wrong game" approach, I don't think it's applicable in the current state of the game. You mean, you can't play a game because you don't like EVERYTHING it has to offer? Does that mean, like, that I can't play EVE online because I choose to craft items instead of running PvE missions? Or because I don't want to be a pirate? Hey, EVE even has this thing called "secure space" - perfect for newbies to start and learn the gist of things before throwing themselves into the harsh reality of zero-sec.

I'm not sure how much of this is applicable to H&H, but I'm sure -something- can be done. And I'm quite sure that something -will- be done, too, because sooner or later the game is going to get more than ~60 active players at peak hours. That might be in the beta stage, or it might be in the live, whenever that happens. I wouldn't expect this free for all anarchistic rule of strength (in both meanings) to last.

[martinuzz]

I am really not sure if there are so many real griefers around.....
..... As I said before there might be some guys out there who destroy stuff for no purpose at all, but I never have met one of those.

I must apologize then, for seemingly having misunderstood the meaning of these lines.

Also.. 'You're playing the wrong game'
I fully agree with Kasakun here.
That line is used so much in too much games by the same type of player, that it has lost all meaning

[Potjeh]

All that's needed is better defences. Trashing somebody's place should be possible, but it should cost the aggressor an arm and a leg. That way people won't do it without a damn good reason.

[burgingham]

I totally agree that driving away totally new players from the game is a bad and unnecessary thing to do, a secure starting area might not be the worst idea here. Once you have set up your farm expect bad things to happen though. It is up to you to make your haven and hearth safe, not up to hard restrictions that simply allow no course of actions against you as was suggested before. Set up a claim, build palisades, track scents, ask rangers for help (there is a whole faction in this game comitted to hunting down thieves, a pretty good example for self regulation in a npc free sandbox game). The thing that is really bothering me are people whining though they did not take the necessary precautions to protect themselves.

[jorb]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4158&start=20#p46021

[Jackard]

The player is responsible for joining or creating a community capable of providing their protection. The price of having a random homestead secreted away in the wilderness is accepting the fact that said wilds can be very dangerous and you are on your own.

[Avu]

Except that no community can defend itself. At best the survivors can retaliate and exact punishment at the risk of their own character (or usually murder alt).

[Jackard]

Obviously, any community can better defend itself than most individuals.

[lordrio]

What's wrong with people?

People are rotten and evil deep deep inside.

Imagine that you have immortality and don't have to suffer consequence for all your action IRL. What would you do? ^_^