Prospecting and creating mines

[sabinati]

there's not a lot of trade happening right now, sure, because people haven't explored enough to find other villages (we've traded with 3 people so far, so there is some). for a large (10+ people) village, yes, a mine is needed. hermits don't really need one. for a hermit lifestyle the nice things to have are grinder(2), pick(4), scythe(1), cellar(1), a few chests(2), and a bronze plate(6). everything else is pretty superfluous, so you need maybe 16 bars of metal. beer mug? feh. make wine. if you simply must have beer, you get 2 mugs out of 1 bar of tin.

brick walls, statues, and mansions are not necessary for small groups or hermits.

[Pansy]

I'd say Loftar and Jorb has set this up deliberately so there will be critical shortages of resources. Everything is now scarce, or if it isn't yet it will be!

I am guessing they are hoping that this will lead to interesting player interactions, with wars being conducted to get control of mines and a thriving trade economy. Only I have an uneasy feeling it will go the opposite way. Those players with the skills and speed and cooperation to get mines already got them. Those with any other playing style or who joined the game late are left so far behind they can't compete. And like Russaria says, there is no incentive for mine owners to trade down!

[burgingham]

And like Russaria says, there is no incentive for mine owners to trade down!

There has been enough trades involving metal on the last map, don't see why this would change. Big towns with mines always need stuff newbies can provide, like linen and chants. Those much needed but tedious to get consumables could be more diversified though. For the numbers of mines I think it is just working fine, let's just wait and see how this developes. There will always be people whining that there are not enough mines, even if we had like 1000 players and 999 mines that one guy would still go on and on about a flawed game mechanic.

[Pansy]

I don't think the incentive will be there in either case. Yeah, the mine owner can always swap metal for chants, but he isn't going to need more than one chest of chants a day. The market for linen only lasts until the wealthy towns have got all the banners they need and then it will collapse again. If you are one of forty-five players who don't have metal and need a dozen metal items (chests, sausage grinder, cellar, scythe) it will be a long, long time before you can get what you need. You could always try to outbid the other metal purchasers by paying twice as many mushrooms, but this locks you into even more of the tedious collecting.... No.

It is never a good thing when a game gets described as tedious.

I'd say the handicap of not having access to metal is going to end up discouraging a lot of players, but we will have to see how it goes.

[Potjeh]

If you can buy for one hour of minining an amount of farm goods it'd take you two hours to make, you're an idiot if you don't trade. Last map started out with high metal prices too, but in a couple of months the supply outpaced the demand, driving the prices down. By the end of the previous world, people were having a hard time selling metal, just ask Warrri.

This map main problem is the lack of connection to trade partners, but that will be overcome as civilization develops. People will make a travel network out of necessity.

[Russaria]

And like Russaria says, there is no incentive for mine owners to trade down!

There has been enough trades involving metal on the last map, don't see why this would change. Big towns with mines always need stuff newbies can provide, like linen and chants. Those much needed but tedious to get consumables could be more diversified though. For the numbers of mines I think it is just working fine, let's just wait and see how this developes. There will always be people whining that there are not enough mines, even if we had like 1000 players and 999 mines that one guy would still go on and on about a flawed game mechanic.

Though I respect your position and knowledge of the game itself, I often find these kind of responses irrelevant as they always come from those like yourself...with everything already, your little clique and your village/villagers with everything you needed in 2 days. Usually made up of all those who know and use every exploit available to have gotten it all in 2 days.

There is not enough mines, there is no trading place, (I bet 99.9% that even knowing the playerbase had increased by 400% they either did not change the mine rate or lowered it), and like someone said...most all the mines were taknen already by those who did not even need them. So of course YOU think it's all fine, I probably would too if I had grinded with a macro and used exploits (Not saying that you did) and had 20 jars of rustroot and uber stats by day 3 and had my 5 mines locked up tight...lol

The whole prospecting for mines is a bust anyway, mines should be available to all players through alot of building work, not carpal tunnel walking and macro grinding.

[sabinati]

i bought at least a chest of chants every day last map. and one of blueberries or linen as well on most days. oh, and some fish (roach and brill, but i would have bought sturgeon if anyone was selling). and cavebulbs, yeah we bought a few of those. I SOLD SO MUCH FUCKING METAL. you have no idea. trades will happen. explore your area and find a village. that's what i did with my wilderness spawn last map, and i found russaria's village (unless someone else was using the in-game name "russaria") and traded him for a few crops i didn't have yet. i never did get any metal on that character until i chased down some theft scents to someone's unclaimed camp and found some tin. chests! hooray! and then the reset. but i did meet other people, who i could have traded with if i had really wanted metal.

[Russaria]

i bought at least a chest of chants every day last map. and one of blueberries or linen as well on most days. oh, and some fish (roach and brill, but i would have bought sturgeon if anyone was selling). and cavebulbs, yeah we bought a few of those. I SOLD SO MUCH FUCKING METAL. you have no idea. trades will happen. explore your area and find a village. that's what i did with my wilderness spawn last map, and i found russaria's village (unless someone else was using the in-game name "russaria") and traded him for a few crops i didn't have yet. i never did get any metal on that character until i chased down some theft scents to someone's unclaimed camp and found some tin. chests! hooray! and then the reset. but i did meet other people, who i could have traded with if i had really wanted metal.

But last map (And yes both I and Rhiannon (my sister) have traded with you last map at various times and many others and yes we had 2 villages Ravenholm and Lake Russaria and 5 mines (3 iron, 1 copper and 1 tin) is nothing like this map...the changes in mechanics, the lack of a trading place, the HUGE population increase, the branch and resource restrictions, on and on make this map NOTHING like the last one in either strategy or available choices of action. EVen if you right now had metal to sell I could never handle the tediousness of having to find you/your village, get there with a load of stuff, and go all the way back to my village. So now, personal mines are even more important. Also realize, carpal tunnell walking for blueberrys and chants may be fine for a week, but when you suggest that the majority of the playerbase consider "Haven and Hearth" the game, as a game in which your playtime is nothing but hunting chants and berrys or grinding linen...well...you try playing H&H with that as your only job. Not much fun after a week or two..lol

Like I said, IMO, the prospecting in this game lost it's viabilty as a game mechanic when there were more than 50 people playing this game as it is too unbalanced with 300-400+ players. Mines should be available to all to build with a huge time/materials investment after buying the skills needed to build said mine. In a game with more than 50 players it would be more interesting to have something like this.

To get a mine, you need prospecting (As just a name skill), mining, and smithing which opens up the mine skills...tin mining, copper ect..each one opens up your abaility to build that mine anywhere. only 1 mine per 500 tile radious. A village or person would then need to choose which mine to build with a huge community effort such as:
Tin mine = 25000 blocks of wood, 1000 planks, 500 string
DOUBLE that = copper
Double that = Iron
Triple that = silver
Triple that = Gold (Making a gold mine cost 600K blocks of wood, 24K planks and 18K string

Talk about a community/village project..lol, Sure would keep the tree planters busy..LOL

So yes, the ability to do that part of the game would be avilable to everyone, trade would still be highly supported, it would create the need for serious co-operation and a lot of time and effort to have a mine. YET would not be the tedious grind or subject to cheating and exploits and all the stuff that the current system, without a trading area, without enough mines to support the larger playerbase, can cause where tedious and monopolizing is concerned. As cool as I may think you are personally, I don't for a second think that places such as Waynesville (considering your town member list)(or any other mega-co-op with admitted exploit users) should monopolize everything in the game. I didn't sign up to H&H to be a chant/berry slave, and I doubt many others did as well.

just my feelings on the matter. It worked fine for 50-100 people but not 400.

[sabinati]

But last map (And yes both I and Rhiannon (my sister) have traded with you last map at various times and many others and yes we had 2 villages Ravenholm and Lake Russaria and 5 mines (3 iron, 1 copper and 1 tin) is nothing like this map...the changes in mechanics, the lack of a trading place, the HUGE population increase, the branch and resource restrictions, on and on make this map NOTHING like the last one in either strategy or available choices of action. EVen if you right now had metal to sell I could never handle the tediousness of having to find you/your village, get there with a load of stuff, and go all the way back to my village. So now, personal mines are even more important. Also realize, carpal tunnell walking for blueberrys and chants may be fine for a week, but when you suggest that the majority of the playerbase consider "Haven and Hearth" the game, as a game in which your playtime is nothing but hunting chants and berrys or grinding linen...well...you try playing H&H with that as your only job. Not much fun after a week or two..lol

well you have some valid points. a lot of things are different. the main one, as i see it, is the decentralization of trade. most trades will probably happen between people within a supergrid of each other.

as far as the "carpal tunnel walking for blueberrys and chants", i mean, i collect them a lot myself, but it's not something i devote any large amount of time to. as i'm out and about, if i see an herb, i grab it. and i'm about to go process a 10x10 field into linen. these are things that people should do for a little each day and build a stockpile, not something you should do for your whole play session.

Like I said, IMO, the prospecting in this game lost it's viabilty as a game mechanic when there were more than 50 people playing this game as it is too unbalanced with 300-400+ players. Mines should be available to all to build with a huge time/materials investment after buying the skills needed to build said mine. In a game with more than 50 players it would be more interesting to have something like this.

To get a mine, you need prospecting (As just a name skill), mining, and smithing which opens up the mine skills...tin mining, copper ect..each one opens up your abaility to build that mine anywhere. only 1 mine per 500 tile radious. A village or person would then need to choose which mine to build with a huge community effort such as:
Tin mine = 25000 blocks of wood, 1000 planks, 500 string
DOUBLE that = copper
Double that = Iron
Triple that = silver
Triple that = Gold (Making a gold mine cost 600K blocks of wood, 24K planks and 18K string

Talk about a community/village project..lol, Sure would keep the tree planters busy..LOL

gotta disagree with you on this. it would be nice if we could get some of that bog iron or like, a random ore 1/1000 times you chip a rock or something, or panning for gold, or some such.

So yes, the ability to do that part of the game would be avilable to everyone, trade would still be highly supported, it would create the need for serious co-operation and a lot of time and effort to have a mine. YET would not be the tedious grind or subject to cheating and exploits and all the stuff that the current system, without a trading area, without enough mines to support the larger playerbase, can cause where tedious and monopolizing is concerned. As cool as I may think you are personally, I don't for a second think that places such as Waynesville (considering your town member list)(or any other mega-co-op with admitted exploit users) should monopolize everything in the game. I didn't sign up to H&H to be a chant/berry slave, and I doubt many others did as well.

just my feelings on the matter. It worked fine for 50-100 people but not 400.

i guess you weren't around on the first map when anyone could build a mine for 100 blocks and there was no trade at all, but trade requires resource disparity among the population. still waiting on those regional resources loftorb...

[iamofage]

I think to solve all our problems the metal composition should just be spread out a bit more. Instead one mine point per 50,000 tiles and having like a lifetime insured supply of one type of metal, how about have a few minepoints on each dirt barren and each have enough for a small settlement.

Personally I think the idea of a minepoint is dumb...it centralizes already super limited resources, like the whole mountain's ore is a single entity, so finding a minepoint is like winning a jackpot. Realistically there should be ore like everywhere, and what's wrong with everyone in the game having a minepoint? Even more minepoints than players would be prefered for if there's new players joining. If not, might as well take the prospecting, mining, smithing and all the metal related fun away from the players who don't own a mine. Price do drop I admit, that's because everyone who didn't get a mine just quits because they are stuck at stone and bone age.

I've seen a lot of games with this escalation problem, someone at an advantage of having a mine will progress while the ones that don't just don't get to have fun from slow progression and eventually just quits the game all together.