by kaizokuroof » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:00 am bitza wrote:so kaizo, let me see if i am understanding your melee strategies correctly. you are suggesting a pure melee build, stacking 23 IP and firing 4 op knocks (assuming they aren't in oak stance for some reason), and ducking in and out of behind trees? this is your pro melee strategy?first off, a UA character can do any of these things just as well as a melee build, with the exception of sting.
it may be easy to stack 23 IP while you're in a boat, or big open field with 6 buckets of water, but what about closed combat situations, say in a house or a snakey mine tunnel? your 500 melee dude will get eaten alive by equal UA, plain and simple. without movement combats, you stand no chance against oak stance + flex. and going toe to toe, you lose the initiative race against death or glory - your UA opponent will have 23 long before you if they so desire.
i do not recommend the pure melee build - sure it's fun to sting naked farmers for 2000 dmg but in real combat you are going to need UA, if for no other reason than you are going to need to understand the many advantages that UA or even a UA-melee hybrid will have over pure melee.This will usually mean, they haven't got a maneuver active on you and that they won't be able to auto follow with a move, thus you avoid the hit.
maneuvers are still activated anytime the opponent makes a move, even if there's no "offensive" move queued for the defending player. to see what i mean, turn on death or glory and attack an ant hill. then click "off" the fight to clear your offensive move. death or glory will still work. no?
e: nm, i think i understand what you mean. you can run around in circles calling thunders, as long as he doesn't stand still or have a move queued his maneuver doesn't activate. in general though it is going to be much much more difficult for the melee user to get 23 IP vs 6 for the UA user (which appears to be most of the time, all of the inits a UA fighter needs)
Hi Bitza,
No this is not my "pro" strategy, as I said, it was a basic combo, just to give some people an idea on how to string some moves together. There are other strategies, that you'll understand if I don't share ^_^ but you're right, MC is under-powered toe-to-toe with UA, after all the defensive weight really doesn't make up for much when someone can use double the moves on you and that's where moving comes into play. (also see rule # 1 of combat)
You are correct in understanding what I mean, whenever you move without a move queued, your maneuvers will not activate if someone uses a move against you and you would be surprised how easy it actually is to not actually let someone get a maneuver off. If the player is standing still and has a maneuver selected then that maneuver WILL become ACTIVE if you use a move on them. One other thing to note with the above tactic is that Call down the thunder only works within a certain tile range, even if someone is following you, you can stop them from using this move by keeping far enough away from you (they will still auto follow you) meaning you can pull them into a tree, all you need to do is wait for them to navigate around the tree (using GOB path turned on makes this easier) and use your move on them, thus eliminating that maneuver bonus and if you're really good and lag is at a minimum, you can pull them into another tree before they get into range of you again, essentially denying them of all IP.
Personally I don't bother and just stack and keep them away from me, after all I fight with extremely low stated characters in terms of both skill points and attributes; you also need to know that It doesn't really matter how much IP they have, past a certain point, all you need to know is what moves they can use when you're moving in for attack. Fighting is all about throwing a spanner into the other persons combo/strategy.
Rule #1 of combat, NEVER put yourself into a situation you can't escape from, this is especially important for a Pure Melee Combatant. If you are fighting inside a village, make sure you can retreat through the opening you came in, if you're with multiple people, have someone stand guard where you rammed/palibashed, so that it cannot be blocked with faggit tactics, like alt spawning, or just to lure people away form there if they are forming an ambush.
Avoid caves/mines when you can as again, they are limited in terms of clipping objects, however, you can place sign posts if you're in dire need of something to clip them on.
Mountains are okay for melee fighters, and are generally suited for those that are running away, rather than chasing, due to rocks and cliffs that you can use to clip and as long as the person you are fighting does not have re-enforcement and can flank/come round from different location.
IMO the best possible fighting location for a MC user, is Forrest terrain, because of the amount of objects you can use to clip other players and cause disruption to their chase.
River fighting is also a viable solution..... WHAT do I mean by River fighting WELL
When ever you enter the water, you lose the ability to queue moves and drink water, now lets set the scene, you're being followed by someone who outstats you by 1500 UA, you're basically going to be one hit regardless of movement hit or not, so you've lured them through forests and you're running low on water and you've hit the rivers edge. Well that's not a problem, if you have a little distance on, cross the river, when you make it to the other side, exit the shallows and move a little to the left or right, stop and drink, as you moved left or right from the shore, did they auto follow(home in on where you moved)? If not, you've got an easy kill, queue sting or punch on the combatant and watch them get stung/punched for full dmg in the water. If they did queue a move, use an auto follow move, like slide or dash (preferably something with quick cool down) and immediately after it's queued, select an attack move. This should allow you to queue a move and also set one on to your mouse (where is turns into a sword icon and you can click their portrait to attack). What will then happen is that you will return to the water, if you have enough defense/HP you'll be able to tank the hit and they will be forced to either move and you can click their portrait with sting/punch and hit them for damage, or it's a test of CON, in which you will both wait it out until one of you dies, or alternatively you can return to shore and hope they didn't do the same as you.
You are right though, you can apply these tactics to a UA or Hybrid build.
FYI; I was fairly weak stated when I had this fight and was still able to break AC: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=28856&start=50#p373833
With regards to getting stuck in a house and fighting, as long as you can keep an object between you and the other player, you should be okay. That said, moving in a house is MUCH more restricting then in the forest and your chances of survival/winning start to decrease. It's still possible though.
My final note on Melee Combat, after all my fights with it, I would definitely use it as a support class, so always take a buddy with you (like the grim reefah) and if you can't break their AC with sting/Valorus Strike, you can always movement punch them
*FINAL EDIT*
One thing to take note, with the world in it's current state, with the ridiculousness of high stats that most players have, you will not be able to one shot someone with a MC build, unless you're rocking over 1000 str and a boss sword.
