What's wrong with people?

Ask, answer and discuss any and all topics about the hows, whys, wheres and whens of playing Haven & Hearth.

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby Jackard » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:06 am

jorb wrote:Our philosophy -- and I honestly laugh at any MMO that tries to apply any other -- has always been that if players play the game in a way that we don't like, then we should try to change the game, not the players. Trying to police a broken system is like trying to heave water out of a sinking ship with a teaspoon, instead of corking the holes that are causing the problem in the first place. Alting can not be reasonably prevented, nor is that something we would want to do if we could

its really the only sensible way to look at it
User avatar
Jackard
 
Posts: 8849
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:07 am
Location: fucking curios how do they work

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby Chakravanti » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:13 am

Same philosophy applies to macros, iirc.
Well what is this that I can't see
With ice cold hands takin' hold of me
Well I am death, none can excel
-Ralph Stanley, O Death!
User avatar
Chakravanti
 
Posts: 3345
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:38 am

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby jorb » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:16 am

Chakravanti wrote:Same philosophy applies to macros, iirc.


Correct.
"The psychological trials of dwellers in the last times will be equal to the physical trials of the martyrs. In order to face these trials we must be living in a different world."

-- Hieromonk Seraphim Rose
User avatar
jorb
 
Posts: 18436
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:07 am
Location: Here, there and everywhere.

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby warrri » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:18 am

That only works as long as the game is free and no faggot wants to sue you because someone else has an advantage because he macros or uses bugs or has multiaccounts where only one account is allowed.
Last edited by warrri on Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
The world I love The tears I drop To be part of The wave can't stop
Ever wonder if it's all for you
The world I love The trains I hop To be part of The wave can't stop
Come and tell me when it's time to
User avatar
warrri
 
Posts: 1033
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:55 pm

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby jorb » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:22 am

warrri wrote:That only works as long as the game is free and no faggot wants to sue you because someone else has an advantage because he macros or uses bugs or whatever.


"or whatever" is not going to hold up in court. ;)
"The psychological trials of dwellers in the last times will be equal to the physical trials of the martyrs. In order to face these trials we must be living in a different world."

-- Hieromonk Seraphim Rose
User avatar
jorb
 
Posts: 18436
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:07 am
Location: Here, there and everywhere.

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby warrri » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:30 am

Better? :P
The world I love The tears I drop To be part of The wave can't stop
Ever wonder if it's all for you
The world I love The trains I hop To be part of The wave can't stop
Come and tell me when it's time to
User avatar
warrri
 
Posts: 1033
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:55 pm

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby jorb » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:49 am

Not really. If I were to design a EULA for anything, I would obviously be very clear about what what the service was intended to provide. The central paragraph that I'd be looking at is probably KKL §16 ("Konsumentköpslagen", Law on consumer purchases), though I haven't really looked into it more than that. It's hard to argue that the game doesn't work as intended, because intended behavior is, obviously, more or less whatever we want it to be, at least we can make a pretty good case that most behaviors are intended. It's also hard to argue that anyone could be caused harm (in the legal-technical sense of the word) by a policy like ours. Also, an EULA like that would obviously make it abundantly clear that no one except us owns variable game data. Pacta sunt servanda, and all that. ;)

EDIT: Though I won't deny that consumer purchase laws tend to admit the strangest benefits and privileges to "consumers" in civil cases. For a discussion on why the distinction between "consumers" and "producers" is arbitrary nonsense, I can only refer you to von Mises excellent critique of it. Loftar has the page numbers you'll want to take a look at. :)
"The psychological trials of dwellers in the last times will be equal to the physical trials of the martyrs. In order to face these trials we must be living in a different world."

-- Hieromonk Seraphim Rose
User avatar
jorb
 
Posts: 18436
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:07 am
Location: Here, there and everywhere.

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby Shades » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:26 am

warrri wrote:That only works as long as the game is free and no faggot wants to sue you because someone else has an advantage because he macros or uses bugs or has multiaccounts where only one account is allowed.


On the other hand anything that can be macro'ed is pretty much too repetitive to count as fun in my opinion, and should probably be automated in the client anyway. Placing the highest quality seeds from bags into my newly ploughed field is certainly one case I'd use a macro if I knew of one to do it. Not sure what the developers' views on that is but that is up to them.
Shades
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:17 pm

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby Fetdaniel » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:14 pm

Asmodeus wrote:Memorisation mechanic has no effect on the details of crime scents.

Bad guys look like bad guys, whether you know their name or not, in japan the get tattoos.. perhaps in olde norway they twisted mice skulls into their beard. Anyone can walk down the street in real life and play spot the thief. Sometimes people who associate with thieves or drug dealers look like them and get mistaken for them, this supports the reflection of the stat being on kin or village.

You can tell someone who comes from a different city (Especially in Europe) and if you have heard bad things about that city you mark it against them without even realising. In Sheffield you can spot someone who comes from Parsons bloody Cross (a real bad suburb) and you cross the road rather than get within arms reach. Doesn't mean I know their name or who they are related to but I know that they are associated with people I dont want to associate with.

I am just looking for reprisal against thieves that doesnt involve killing them, because not everyone can do that. Its why people banded together and lived in villages in the first place.


Wtf? I disagree.
Fetdaniel
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: What's wrong with people?

Postby Fetdaniel » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:17 pm

Potjeh wrote:Nonono, you identify bad people by measuring their skulls. I thought everyone knew that.

But anyway, here's my proposal:

To break city walls, you need to build a siege camp in vicinity, and hold it for a specified length of time (one RL day at least). Then you get a battering ram/catapult/whatever and knock down the walls. The defenders need to destroy your camp to prevent this.

But that leaves thieves out in the cold. And as much as I hate getting stolen from, I still think that a reasonable amount of theft adds a certain charm to the game. So, what's the solution?
1) Make it possible to scale walls.
2) Make it impossible to scale walls with armour and large stuff in inventory (swords, picks, etc.).
3) Make it impossible to destroy stuff without a pick (you can see where this is going). Of course, stuff like bog iron is a prerequisite for this.
4) Add lockpicking for cabins etc, but not for city gates.


Actually that proposal is great, the whole thing of pickaxing down a palisade has always been ridiculus to me. Scaling seems much smarter if you're trying to thief or intrude on a settlement. Has anybody played Darklands btw? this reminds me of it.
Fetdaniel
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:20 pm

PreviousNext

Return to How do I?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Claude [Bot] and 2 guests