Haven & Hearth 102

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Haven & Hearth 102

Postby Chakravanti » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:25 pm

Introduction to H&H 102

This is not a tutorial for how to play the game but rather a guide for asomeone who has already discovered the absurd nature of our UI and struggled as long and horribly as we have, decided to stick around for the long haul, and might be wondering what the best meta-plan for playing the game in an efficient and prosperous manner would be.

Tips & Tricks

Read all the stickies. Find the wiki and the IRC channel. Silver X is an open source (and thus FREE) port of xchat to windows. It's lightweight and functional.


Jackard wrote:You should never carry keys on your person or open gates unless absolutely necessary; use teleports instead. Store your keys on alt vaults.


Find alternative clients, nightvision and xray because you'll be at a significant disadvantage if you don't. Use the tanning tub exploit (put tub into cart and remove) because it was put there on purpose by loftar back in the day when crashes made %100 leather impossible. He hasn't seen fit to remove so don't feel guilty for using it.

The fuel bug that everyone refers to is the leaving of an item in a processing container (smelter, kiln, oven, etc.) for a sufficient length of time and putting one tick of fuel. e.g. a stick. Be careful of burnables and two tick fuels like charcoal and blocks/boards. Smelters will work with charcoal because they don't turn to ash like some items in ovens and kilns.

Cows can be tamed without injury at any combat level with the right skills, setup and timing.

Here is a guide. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5786

I think the trick to not getting hit is watching them jump and and sidestepping from the corner of a corner-less construction sign fence because it's enough to get at the auroch but not let him get through. He can hit you but there is a timing to his strikes and you have to get in, make your move and get away before his next strike. This also makes consume the flames unnecessary if you're nimble enough because no hits means no intensity.

Flax is good for aesthetic purposes only. Hemp grows faster, produces extra goods and requires significantly fewer sprites (which results in higher FPS for most players).

Metal is indispensable to getting out of nubdom. Getting basic tools and maintaining a small supply of repair cast is not unachieveable but the more you invest into tools the more you stand to lose from not having built a brick wall. Build one ASAP and pay the rediculous (from the perspective of a mineless hermit/small town) amounts of metal it costs without doubting the value of doing so. Scythes are a nub's best friend. Get your hands on one ASAP. They're cheap and excessively boost efficiency. WHen I can I tend to give them away to most nubs I meet at random if they're nearby my village. It's good for business.

Veteran Advice

DatOneGuy wrote:Nice guide. One thing I'd change is that the initial brickwall should be quite a bit bigger than one mansion, in my opinion your initial brickwall should be a minimum of 50x50 if you're a hermit, preferably larger.

Why? You have a lot of things to guard, and expanding only costs bricks, which you can find via a few clayspots.

Other things I find very VERY important to mention:
Crossroad system. Develop a good crossroad system and it will be your best friend, while you're off selling all that hemp you should focus on two main things whether you have to trade or you can do it yourself: 1)Get a village claim up ASAP 2)Cross-fucking-ROADS . These are very important towards a CR system, you always want to have your local quality spots (best you can find anyway) with Crossroads leading to them. Protecting your crossroads isn't 100% necessary, but it's a good idea. If you have the wrought or ever reach the point where you want to instead of joining a village (perhaps alliance? who knows), brickwalling your crossroads is a good idea.


DatOneGuy wrote:...given how many villlages have iron mines and I'm sure would like to get their hands on some good like a bunch of dough/foods, it shouldn't be hard to do.


Once you get farming and baking up and can make 40+ dough then making a switch to baked goods can be a better value: investment ratio and be more marketable. Not all villages will be purchasing pepper. Doing so is the top rung of village progress (Achieving psy crafter and gold/silver mines)


Trading & Security

toshirohayate wrote:I would consider trading. It's alot easier.


Pepper is by far the highest demanded commodity but it's value:investment ratio is lower than other potential commodities. Additionallity it is a very compact trade good because it acquires value:inv to a ratio only surpassed by gold, silver and crafted products thereof. It grows slow so depending on your play style you can rotate multiple fields. depending on your frequency of play. High quality pepper production is difficult but good tables can be traded for and can go a long way toward improving the value of your commodity even as a nubbish farmer.

Security around personal goods as a nub player can be achieved with alt vaults, not leaving crops unharvested and eventually investing in a brick wall around your 'vault' which would hold your tables. Buy the wall before buying the tables. Pallisade kickers are still a dime a dozen these days. Keep seeds back for replanting if you get rolled. on alt vaults and inside the vault.

Make friends with your best and closest trade partener. Build an idol, trade signs and subscribe to some form of protection once you have a vault up. If someone comes along and drops a ram in front of your vault you can get help quickly. Your liege will be quick to defend you if you show yourself capable of defending yourself within your means. If you can work with your liege to defend your valuables then he in turn profits because neither he nor you lose goods and your production/trade is not hindered. If you are apathetic to defend yourself your leige will be likewise apathetic.

Such is the life available to a 'soloist'. The game demands access to the highest levels of economic development (tables and jewelry/armor) to achieve significant proportions of efficiency in which to make one's development efficient.

This is the quickest and most effective form of soloing the game which is the only option viable to most newbies.

Village protection tutorial by Avu:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7116&start=0


Your first commodity: Linen 4 Walls & Tools

The problem with pepper is that you can't produce decent shit until you can afford good tables and you can't keep good tables until you can afford to defend them with brick walls and an Idol. The best defenseless commodity for the nub is linnen. Producing this requires absolutely no stat ivestment as it is always a high demand commodity that can be traded in bulk to any city producing metal. Rates tend give 8-12 linen per bar depending on quality. that's 50 tiles of hemp per bar of metal. Save up the required metals by storing all finished goods on alt vaults and trading in high quantities by generating lots of alt vaults. Pallisades are good but having nothing to defend is better and of course both are best.

Wrought is 2-3x more expensive than cast and steel is 5-10x depending on your vendor. Fortunately you walls do not require any quality and can be done with minimal expense. Pick out a plot of land that can hold a mansion or two and room for you to walk around. The cheapest way to do it is to put you gate at the corner and save yourself 5 wrought and 75 bricks. Someone else will have to write a tutorial on how to line up walls to cliff without creating holes in order to further conserve (making the cheapest possible vault cost 20 wrought, 5 steel and 600+ bricks.

Eventually you'll want to have more things to protect and not suffer the inconvenience of having to put you metal plow back in the vault and have space for more cows. Switching to pepper after your vault is built will make the cost of a full wall's metal much less significant but the size of land you choose to require for your operations would drive up the cost of bricks which would become the major struggle in building a second tier of personal defense. Fortunately ou can safely use quantum storage inside your vault. Build your second layer of brick 20 tiles from any part of your vault's walls in order to make any ram's breach of exterior walls not directly expose your vault's walls in moveable distance of the ram.

Once you're in full swing and get the bricks for it...planning to add a third tier of brick walls 20 spaces outside your second layer will make you virtually unassailable. The accumulation of this many bricks is time consuming but the peace of mind is invaluable. Don't forget to repair them no less than once a week, twice to be sure.

Choices: Forming a Personal Development Plan

As far as what stats a person might be interested in developing one has several choices. Personally I favor the imba approach of sustaining myself on pumpkin pies and Robs. I don't hunt or find it necessary. A vegan diet is sufficient for building a militant capable character of high strength through trade. Someone wanting a more versatile, weaker and balanced character can find themselves to be well sustained by cheese for strength and can neglect strength earlier on because cheese is easy and cheap to produce once one has the second layer of walls and can afford the secure space in which to raise cattle and accumulate significant amounts of fodder through mass pumpkin farming (until enough non-pregnant milk cows can be built up to one's desired level). Perception can be quickly caught up because once milk is sufficiently rapid in production carrot cake is easy to make.

psy is always the hardest to raise and if one intends to raise it then stopping progress at 70 till psy can catch up throughthe accumulation of bulbs. THis is feasable but it's a pain in the ass. It can however be traded for but bulbs are high demand items everywhere. You'll always fare better fetching your own until you can actually produce high end tableware and jewelry. In fact, what's available on the market now makes this avenue of development a massive mountain to attempt scaling anything on par with whaty can be traded for at a minor fraction of the investment in the ability to produce something you don't even have the raw goods for. IF you want PSY it's a PITFA and it'll slow oyu down. Still it's worth enough to stick to a vegan diet of RoB's...imho...otherwise they're still a half decent trade commodity and if you pick blueberries you can always make birthday cakes to supplement the development even if they're a pitfa to make. Doing this will give you enough psy to make high quality silk products which are a good marketable item that have a softcap that makes the necessary psy a feasable achievement for someone who develops their psy casually and doesn't mind it lagging behind later on (200+ stats). Even so, selling your honey and buying DDD's is a far more efficient way to train agi If you don't care about being able ot produce high quality silk later on. Becuase if you go the route of a tailor/seamstress then you'll also need ot invest in dex, collect mushrooms and raise chickens to facilitate its development. The diet of a tailor is rather strict even if you don't eat bulbs.

Skipping the tailor/smith proffessions and deciding to be a farmer leaves you perfectly disposed to a military diet of pumpkin pies and DDD's. Meaning if you don't give a shit about producing anything more than high end farmables then you can easily use your diet to create a very strong character. Pumpkin pies will actually give you a lot more strength than it seems and if you ever feel it lags too far behind you should already be making cheese enough to catch it up as quickly as necessary. Eventually buffing con will be a pitfa because even with the best tables and 90+ pumpkins getting 300+ is just rediculous and you can feel good about your constitution enough to scrap everything (assuming AGI is on par) and get fat on strength.

Village Life?

Doing this makes you highly marketable to prospective villages which should be able to facilitate your access to better tables or have a project going in order to buy sucha table for the community. The more you bring to the table on your own the more a prospective village of greater cumulative wealth will entertain your recruitment. Becuase not only have you accumulate resources but you have potentially partially built a resource in your brick walls: a ranger's hideout. Having of militant stats will make them eager to outfit you with expensive military gear, food, training resources and of course....eventually....action. Being a seamstress is equally invaluable to a village and farmers are ALWAYS in demand around the idol.

Village life is very different. Hang on to your old settlement for a while even if you let it decay because it might not suit you or the particular village you find might not be the right people. It's a totally different experience.

The Nub Lottery
bitza wrote:one thing i would mention is the possibility of hitting the "noob lottery", that is, finding an extremely high (90+?) clay/soil/water point. i'm sure that in the unexplored outer grids there is still a good chance of finding a valuable resource point.

in which case the player would be wise to claim, village, and brickwall the idol. with a large enough claim, even the player's death will be no bar to ownership of the resource.

edit: well, dog already kind of said this i guess, but a valuable enough resource will open many doors to trade without having to slave for linen, pepper, cavebulbs, etc



In summation...

-Find yourself a trade route before all else-
1. Farm Hemp, Make use of altvaults for all finished and purchased goods. Search for resources.
2. Build small brick wall vault to house at least one mansion.
3. Buy HQ herb tables to facilitate the transition to pepper as base production commodity.
4. Buy expensive metal tools (plow, cauldron etc.) and start breeding cows.
5. Build a second brick wall.
6. Buy a good table.

Don't forget to carefully consider and choose your path of development and if you can handle village lifestyle...get yourself recruited somewhere between 4&6.

Fare ye well young Hearthlings and speak your mind any veterans with more wisdom or knowledges.

Watch for the multi-tier seedbag q sorting tutorial.
Last edited by Chakravanti on Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:36 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Haven & Hearth 102

Postby DatOneGuy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:18 pm

Nice guide. One thing I'd change is that the initial brickwall should be quite a bit bigger than one mansion, in my opinion your initial brickwall should be a minimum of 50x50 if you're a hermit, preferably larger.

Why? You have a lot of things to guard, and expanding only costs bricks, which you can find via a few clayspots.

Other things I find very VERY important to mention:
Crossroad system. Develop a good crossroad system and it will be your best friend, while you're off selling all that hemp you should focus on two main things whether you have to trade or you can do it yourself: 1)Get a village claim up ASAP 2)Cross-fucking-ROADS . These are very important towards a CR system, you always want to have your local quality spots (best you can find anyway) with Crossroads leading to them. Protecting your crossroads isn't 100% necessary, but it's a good idea. If you have the wrought or ever reach the point where you want to instead of joining a village (perhaps alliance? who knows), brickwalling your crossroads is a good idea.
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Re: Haven & Hearth 102

Postby Jackard » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:21 pm

All that and no warning about keys?

You should never carry keys on your person or open gates unless absolutely necessary; use teleports instead. Store your keys on alt vaults.
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Re: Haven & Hearth 102

Postby Chakravanti » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:22 am

Jackard wrote:All that and no warning about keys?

Good catch, done.
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Re: Haven & Hearth 102

Postby Onionfighter » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:37 am

Section headings may help the readability.
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Re: Haven & Hearth 102

Postby bitza » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:06 am

one thing i would mention is the possibility of hitting the "noob lottery", that is, finding an extremely high (90+?) clay/soil/water point. i'm sure that in the unexplored outer grids there is still a good chance of finding a valuable resource point.

in which case the player would be wise to claim, village, and brickwall the idol. with a large enough claim, even the player's death will be no bar to ownership of the resource.

edit: well, dog already kind of said this i guess, but a valuable enough resource will open many doors to trade without having to slave for linen, pepper, cavebulbs, etc
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Re: Haven & Hearth 102

Postby burgingham » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:16 am

Onionfighter wrote:Section headings may help the readability.


this.

Chakravanti wrote:Cows can be tamed without injury at any combat level with the right skills, setup and timing.


While you explain all the rest of your points very thoroughly, there is no advice for the advanced newbie here. I think there was a taming guide around somewhere, maybe at least link it.

Other then that great guide.
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Re: Haven & Hearth 102

Postby Chakravanti » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:23 am

bitza wrote: "noob lottery"

Well said, I'm gonna quote you and give you your own section.

burgingham wrote:
Onionfighter wrote:Section headings may help the readability.


this.

Hmm....I thought I took care of it when he said that the first time. i must not have pushed it through. Good idea, it's done, thank you.

Chakravanti wrote:Cows can be tamed without injury at any combat level with the right skills, setup and timing.

burgingham wrote:While you explain all the rest of your points very thoroughly, there is no advice for the advanced newbie here. I think there was a taming guide around somewhere, maybe at least link it.

Other then that great guide.
If I can find it I'll link it otherwise get me the link and I'll slap it in there. I intended to once I discovered it but haven't gottten around to digging for it yet.
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Re: Haven & Hearth 102

Postby Thijssnl » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:35 am

Good guide.
Chakravanti wrote:Tips & Tricks
Wrought is 2-3x more expensive than cast and steel is 5-10x depending on your vendor. Fortunately you walls do not require and quality and can be done with minimal expense. Pick out a plot of land that can hold a mansion or two and room for you to walk around. The cheapest way to do it is to put you gate at the corner and save yourself 5 wrought and 75 bricks. Someone else will have to write a tutorial on how to line up walls to cliff without creating holes in order to further conserve (making the cheapest possible vault cost 20 wrought, 5 steel and 600+ bricks.

Spelling mistake there, should be any.
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Re: Haven & Hearth 102

Postby burgingham » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:45 am

http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5786

Didn't read it, so I am not sure how good it is.
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