Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players - Metal section done

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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby MagicManICT » Tue May 10, 2011 6:30 am

Sevenless wrote:
Mining section comes after hunting. Bear cape is an essential for this after all. That being said, I'm breaking off from the chronological sequence and diverging into "professions" and/or village foundation. Might make village foundation a "profession" of sorts just to keep with the theme.


Sounds like a good order to me. Although hunting isn't absolutely necessary before mining, the odds of finding ore without the extra str from the bear cape and talisman is much lower. Decent quality alcohol can give as good a boost when totally drunk. It just takes a lot of wine or beer to get that boost, though.

Founding a village is handy for trading and for claiming an area, but I think it's beyond the scope of a beginners guide. At that point, either the player has joined a village, given up due to the complexity, or can figure it out on their own. Now, I will say that I can't think of any consolidated information about the game mechanics of villages.

As a note, make sure to link this on the wiki, because I'm not sure if the mods will sticky this.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby Sevenless » Tue May 10, 2011 7:24 am

MagicManICT wrote:
Sevenless wrote:
Mining section comes after hunting. Bear cape is an essential for this after all. That being said, I'm breaking off from the chronological sequence and diverging into "professions" and/or village foundation. Might make village foundation a "profession" of sorts just to keep with the theme.


Sounds like a good order to me. Although hunting isn't absolutely necessary before mining, the odds of finding ore without the extra str from the bear cape and talisman is much lower. Decent quality alcohol can give as good a boost when totally drunk. It just takes a lot of wine or beer to get that boost, though.

Founding a village is handy for trading and for claiming an area, but I think it's beyond the scope of a beginners guide. At that point, either the player has joined a village, given up due to the complexity, or can figure it out on their own. Now, I will say that I can't think of any consolidated information about the game mechanics of villages.

As a note, make sure to link this on the wiki, because I'm not sure if the mods will sticky this.


Doing farming before mining is possible, but alcohol boost requires a lot more work to get than a single bear kill. Not to mention the boost requires constant input while the bear boost is static. Overall I consider it well worth the 30min-1hr time commitment it takes a noob to kill a bear.

As for founding a village, or joining one. We all know this is the next place noobs look. I'd like to try and point them towards village safety and what they need to keep in mind. Kind of setting them in the right direction with a gentle nudge and let themselves figure it out from there on. We'll see how far I get down that line of thought lol. It's a lot to chew on already as it is.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby cloakblade » Tue May 10, 2011 7:42 am

You said you were going to assume 1 account up at a time. I assume this means you will teach about gate alts, and alt claiming?
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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby Woot » Tue May 10, 2011 8:21 am

Let it be known, enders clients big red circle to highlight animals is not always perfect, stay well out of that red circle, they will sometimes get you outside the radius, to really be safe you CNTRL-G to see the grid and consider squares touching that circle unsafe

This is also true for mine supports, unless that square is ENTIRELY covered, do NOT mine there.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby Jackard » Tue May 10, 2011 9:16 am

Woot wrote:Let it be known, enders clients big red circle to highlight animals is not always perfect, stay well out of that red circle, they will sometimes get you outside the radius, to really be safe you CNTRL-G to see the grid and consider squares touching that circle unsafe

An option in the advanced menu puts big red warning circles around aggressive animals. Treat this as a warning sign, not an accurate aggro range. Keep them at the edge of your screen when possible for maximum safety.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby DatOneGuy » Tue May 10, 2011 9:32 am

Do we know their actual aggro range? In visual range (50 tiles) or :?:
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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby Goddess » Tue May 10, 2011 11:41 am

I'd include a sheet with additional basic formulas, for the most common things at the beginning.
Might be useful for some.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby MagicManICT » Tue May 10, 2011 4:36 pm

Sevenless wrote:
Doing farming before mining is possible, but alcohol boost requires a lot more work to get than a single bear kill. Not to mention the boost requires constant input while the bear boost is static. Overall I consider it well worth the 30min-1hr time commitment it takes a noob to kill a bear.

As for founding a village, or joining one. We all know this is the next place noobs look. I'd like to try and point them towards village safety and what they need to keep in mind. Kind of setting them in the right direction with a gentle nudge and let themselves figure it out from there on. We'll see how far I get down that line of thought lol. It's a lot to chew on already as it is.


Farming is going to be much easier to do than mining and 10x more useful. Without the food supply farming brings in, a player isn't going to be able to mine much. Therefore, farming > mining

I do agree with the alcohol boost to strength requiring a lot of resources and time. However, the cave I found there were large sections of it that I was unable to mine even with the bear tooth talisman and a decent tool.

DatOneGuy wrote:Do we know their actual aggro range? In visual range (50 tiles) or :?:


Seems like visual direction has a lot to do with it. I can almost sneak up behind a boar before it aggros, but coming from in front will inevitably get it to aggro a much greater distance away. The stealth attribute might have something to do with their aggro range, too, along with movement speed (harder to be silent when running vs walking). I haven't noticed that anything will block line of sight, though.

I haven't played with the range much yet. Now that I can nearly one-shot a boar in melee faster than range and chase, I might play around with it.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby Sevenless » Thu May 12, 2011 12:06 am

cloakblade wrote:You said you were going to assume 1 account up at a time. I assume this means you will teach about gate alts, and alt claiming?


Yes, it will be one of the exceptions to the "1 client running per time" that must be made until village claim is up.

Goddess wrote:I'd include a sheet with additional basic formulas, for the most common things at the beginning.
Might be useful for some.


Not a bad idea, I'll put it on my to do list. Want to work my way through the rest of the guide before I start on that. In theory the wiki has that info, even though it's often convoluted to find (Planted Tree Q is only found on planter's pot page for instance).

MagicManICT wrote:
Farming is going to be much easier to do than mining and 10x more useful. Without the food supply farming brings in, a player isn't going to be able to mine much. Therefore, farming > mining

I do agree with the alcohol boost to strength requiring a lot of resources and time. However, the cave I found there were large sections of it that I was unable to mine even with the bear tooth talisman and a decent tool.


Hmm, food for thought in this comment. I never found it an issue keeping fed via hunting as a fledgling settlement though. I think I might put the section on farming before mining because it does produce a lot of useful products. Part of the reason why I put mining first is the time component required to collect all the needed seeds. With a small foraging radius, as new players are likely to keep, getting the seeds required is tough. I was mining my first tin deposit right about the same time we managed to finally collect wheat, carrots and flax.

But nutrition wise, beginning miners are unlikely to *need* farm food. Farm food takes a more labour per nutrition unit I've found, certainly when farming without travel sacks or scythes. Since beginners are unlikely to be focusing on stat grind just yet, tables aren't likely to be common. As such, roast meat is a real good way to fill bulk hunger bar.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide for Beginning Players ~Under Constructi

Postby MagicManICT » Thu May 12, 2011 1:33 am

Sevenless wrote:I never found it an issue keeping fed via hunting as a fledgling settlement though. I think I might put the section on farming before mining because it does produce a lot of useful products. Part of the reason why I put mining first is the time component required to collect all the needed seeds. With a small foraging radius, as new players are likely to keep, getting the seeds required is tough. I was mining my first tin deposit right about the same time we managed to finally collect wheat, carrots and flax.

But nutrition wise, beginning miners are unlikely to *need* farm food. Farm food takes a more labour per nutrition unit I've found, certainly when farming without travel sacks or scythes. Since beginners are unlikely to be focusing on stat grind just yet, tables aren't likely to be common. As such, roast meat is a real good way to fill bulk hunger bar.


Wheat is probably the biggest boon with early farming other than the perception foods and booze. (Pumpkin pie, blueberry pie, etc.) You're quite right about farming not being very useful to a dedicated miner. The only thing that provides Str is pumpkins, and then it's only 50/50 with Con.

I think the one concern I have with this reply is the purpose of the guide. Are you encouraging people to join a village or work solo for a bit? If the former, then dedicating towards farming, mining, etc. works. However, if the guide is for the later, then farming is a much easier method of staying fed than hunting or foraging. Also, anyone solo is going to have to think about raising nearly all attributes. Charisma, and maybe Psyche, aren't needed by solo players. If you're going to describe both, then both views are needed. I know that could really add length and complexity, though.

My other concern is solo players advance in tech much more slowly than villages. A solo player doesn't need much in the way of metal until they can get enough to make all the necessary tools for working it. Also, for a solo player, it's sometimes easier to trade for the metal they want/need than trying to produce it. High quality metal takes a buttload of work: high end clay, lots of trees continuously being replanted, miners digging for the best ore they can find on the deepest level they can reach, etc. It's a lot of work a single person just can't do efficiently. You need alts or a couple of friends.
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