Advanced beehive experiment

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Advanced beehive experiment

Postby Xcom » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:53 pm

After getting sick like everyone else on how these beehives produced wax/honey I decided to make a extensive experiment to confirm there behavior. Let me just add that I only did experiments on one type of crop and that was carrots. I will later explain why.

I started by making a perfect 13 radius circle in the ground found on this page.
http://donatstudios.com/PixelCircleGenerator
The end result: Image
576 farmable tiles used for 576 carrots.
I'll list the things I did confirm and if I don't explain it here if anyone else posts anything about it I'll give more detailed explanation about that part.

Confirmed:
1. Beehives produce wax when crops change stage.
2. When planting a new crop in the ground it behaves like a stage change.
3. Last stage change in a crop (growing to the last stage) doesn't produce wax or honey.
4. Beehives can produce wax, honey or both at the same time.
5. Beehives quality of wax and honey can go above 100Q.

Listed above are the most common knowledge facts about beehives and most people know this already. The list below was found through the experiments done.

6. Beehives produce wax or honey every 20 real life minutes, it does not produce wax or honey at random times. The server must send an update to update all beehives every 20 min. The crops on the ground can change stage at any time and is not related to when the beehive gets its update.

7. The beehive will produce wax or honey depending on how much crop stage changes have acquired between the beehive updates. To many updates and it only produces the maximum amount. To little crop updates and it produces the minimum. More on this later.

8. Beehive can get crop stage changes even when lifted in the air by a player.

9. The beehive quality will not reset if its lower then 100 quality but it will reset if its higher. By reset it means you either leave the area and have that area unload (this means items on ground disappears, wildlife disappears and beehive resets). It also resets to 100Q if the beehive is placed inside a boat and is then instantly taken out. By reset it means that your beehive can have a internal quality of 217Q and its instantly reset to a default 100Q. It does not reset to 100Q if its for example 77Q.

10. The crop stage changes directly affect the quality of the beehive. The beehive increases in quality depending to the average quality of the crops changing stage around it. The quality levels out at the same exact quality level as the average surrounding crops that have changed stage.

11. The first plantation reduces the quality of the beehive. It was never confirmed what exact quality it was but pointed towards half the crops quality. If ones trying to farm high quality wax this must be avoided. Later on about this.

12. The beehive have an internal quality and its this quality that determines the quality of the products coming out.

The first thing I want to add is that I used a script to keep a character logged in at all times to keep the beehive from resetting. The script also printed out quality of products at the time of them being made by the beehive showing a timestamps and counting the amount of crops that have changed stage sense the last time it produced any product. By some standards this is unacceptable and it clearly shows that beehives are a clear broken game mechanic that needs fixing. Its clear that its only possible to farm high quality wax by game abuse and bots. Added to the end of this post is some but not all of the printouts during the experiment.

These are some of my hypotheses and might not be overly accurate.
The beehive will produce different amounts of materials depending on how many crop stage changes it has gotten between the updates.
0-25: updates seams to not produce anything.
25-40: produces 0.1 L of honey.
40-60: 1 wax or 0.1L honey.
60-90: both 1 wax and 0.1 L honey
90+: 0.2 L honey and 1 wax.

I chose carrots for 4 main reasons.
1. Its the crop that had the highest quality besides beetroots in my base.

2. Its the fastest growing crop in the game and because of this wax is produced quicker in a compressed time while you have your character logged in.

3. It can be replanted at stage 3 with carrot seeds as stage 4(the last stage) is useless in wax production as it gives no wax or honey.

4. I didn't choose beetroots because carrots have 4 stage in there growth cycle and beetroots have only 3. This means more crop stage changes and more wax / honey production from farming carrots compared to beetroots.

One thing that was very difficult to confirm was if the beehive remembered the updates from the previous update cycle. Meaning if it got 20 crop stage changes on the previous update it would produce 1 wax if 20 more crops changed stage on the current update cycle 20+20 = 40. Or if each update reset the amount of crop stage changes it needed before producing any product. It was clear that it reset the counter each time it produced any product though. This meant that if it detected 90 crop stage changes it would produce the maximum product output or if it detected 200. It showed that it was not wise to update all crops at the same time when farming wax on a larger field. It also showed that trying to produce the maximum amount of wax with the minimum amount of crops the plantation cycle would have to happen between the update cycles to get as many crop stage changes between the updates for guaranteed wax output.

One other thing to note was that I lifted the beehive up and moved far enough away from the crops when replanting them to not receive updates on the beehive. If this was not done the beehive was heavily influenced by the crop updates negatively reducing the products coming out of the beehive until all crops was turned over. The quality of the products coming out of the beehive was heavily reduced during the replantation. One interesting side affect was the way the quality of the products behaved over time. They were coming out in a buffered manner meaning that they went down as more crops got replanted and stop when all the crops had been replanted. Later it increased as crops changed stage. It behaved as if the beehive was receiving quality updates from the crops directly into its buffer with something similar to this equation.
beehive quality = ( old beehive quality + (average crops update quality * 2) ) / 3
Note that its just a guesstimate and might not be accurate. It is hinting towards this equation though. I also guess that a crop update takes the delta of the cropQ and is semi confirming why the first crop plantation has such a drastically negative affect on the beehive. Something similar to this
crop update quality = old crop quality + next crop quality / 2
This would mean that the first stage would have half the quality of the crops usual quality update. 0+max/2. All the successive crop updates gave the same quality as the crop quality planted.

Things I didn't get to test was.
1. Confirm the quality level of beehive when replanting crops. If this behaves as the equation above it might be possible to get Q0 wax.
2. How exactly does beehive share crop updates. Are crops only connecting to the first beehive that updates making one dominant or if its always tied up to the closest beehive.
3. Does all beehives in the same area update at the same time or does each beehive have its own update timer.

I hope this helps clarify some of the myths surrounding beehives and get you to try making some Q wax as I did.
Last edited by Xcom on Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Advanced beehive experiment

Postby Xcom » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:54 pm

New crop data, plants found: 576
-------------
Time: 08:10:16
Crops changed stage 58
Bucket (0.1/10 l of quality 327 honey) Quality: 327
Beeswax Quality: 327
-------------
Time: 08:31:18
Crops changed stage 110
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 327 honey) Quality: 327
Beeswax Quality: 327
-------------
Time: 08:49:38
Crops changed stage 85
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 327 honey) Quality: 327
Beeswax Quality: 327
-------------
Time: 09:10:35
Crops changed stage 86
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 327 honey) Quality: 327
Beeswax Quality: 327
-------------
Time: 09:30:02
Crops changed stage 91
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 327 honey) Quality: 327
Beeswax Quality: 327
-------------
Time: 09:50:03
Crops changed stage 108
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 328 honey) Quality: 328
Beeswax Quality: 328
-------------
Time: 10:11:12
Crops changed stage 38
Bucket (0.1/10 l of quality 328 honey) Quality: 328
-------------
Time: 11:12:43
Crops changed stage 118
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 328 honey) Quality: 328
Beeswax Quality: 328
-------------
Time: 11:34:21
Crops changed stage 95
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 328 honey) Quality: 328
Beeswax Quality: 328

-------------
Time: 11:55:57
Crops changed stage 103
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 328 honey) Quality: 328
Beeswax Quality: 328
-------------
Time: 12:16:31
Crops changed stage 92
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 328 honey) Quality: 328
Beeswax Quality: 328
-------------
Time: 12:34:32
Crops changed stage 78
Bucket (0.1/10 l of quality 328 honey) Quality: 328
Beeswax Quality: 328
-------------
Time: 12:54:31
Crops changed stage 80
Bucket (0.2/10 l of quality 328 honey) Quality: 328
Beeswax Quality: 328
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Re: Advanced beehive experiment

Postby dagrimreefah » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:50 am

All very interesting finds, and very much unknown on my end. Thank you for this.
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Re: Advanced beehive experiment

Postby Xcom » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:39 pm

Bump.

I think people are asking for beehives again.
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Re: Advanced beehive experiment

Postby mvgulik » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:42 pm

Nice Xcom.
(Added link to this topic at RoB-wiki Beehive discussion page.)

Xcom wrote:8. Beehive can get crop stage changes even when lifted in the air by a player.

Feel like nitpicking a bit. How did you tested/confirmed this?
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Re: Advanced beehive experiment

Postby Xcom » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:14 am

mvgulik wrote:Nice Xcom.
(Added link to this topic at RoB-wiki Beehive discussion page.)

Xcom wrote:8. Beehive can get crop stage changes even when lifted in the air by a player.

Feel like nitpicking a bit. How did you tested/confirmed this?


I discovered that the Q of the products were rapidly dropping in quality when replanting the field. I had suspicions of replanting causing massive Q drops so after having it reliably confirmed I had the beehive lifted in the air to not get the drop in Q when doing replants. But the result was the same, massive Q drop even with a lifted beehive.

I thought that the beehive might have been affected by a timer constantly ticking the Q down because it lacked crop stage changes around it but I later confirmed it wasn't true as I lifted the beehive up and walked far enough away from the re-plantation so its radius was outside the carrot field. That was when I noticed that there was no Q drop timer at all even if I took my time replanting. Beehive could be stabilized at a constant Q of the max Q of crops and have it constantly produce max Q products as long as the beehive was lifted away and replanted when it wasn't present during replant.
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Re: Advanced beehive experiment

Postby mvgulik » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:17 pm

Roger, Thanks for clear feedback.
(All imaginary holes on this side on this item where plugged. ;) )
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Re: Advanced beehive experiment

Postby mvgulik » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:23 pm

Xcom wrote:2. How exactly does beehive share crop updates. Are crops only connecting to the first beehive that updates making one dominant or if its always tied up to the closest beehive.


Just a little brainstorming.

Closed beehive:
Distant seems not relevant(*1). Considering you can change the location of the dominate beehive, whiteout that beehive losing its dominant status. (if dominant (or first selected) beehive is full, the second beehive (if present) will get the resources(honey & wax). (Not 100% sure, but have never seen something that contradicts this so far.)

*1) For beehives that are placed in the same sub-map section. (sub-map section: see: RoB|Talk:Cartography)
I don't know how beehives behave when there close to each other, but also in separate sub-map sections. Considering there is this idea floating around that resources would be split over the available beehives (which is generally wrong. Unless those cases where using beehives on different sub-sections, in which case is makes sense that the resources of all the crops would be split up over the different beehives.)
Or: Every sub-map section uses its own general(caching) hony&wax resource collector. And, on a beehive update tick, if there is a beehive available that's not full in that section. Resources are dumped into that beehive. The beehive selection order is probably the Q of that current, or last available, resources in them. (this collector will look for beehives in its own section first, and than in all 8 neighboring section. (explaining the 3x3 section range limitation of beehives.)
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Re: Advanced beehive experiment

Postby Xcom » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:19 pm

mvgulik wrote:
Xcom wrote:2. How exactly does beehive share crop updates. Are crops only connecting to the first beehive that updates making one dominant or if its always tied up to the closest beehive.


Just a little brainstorming.

Closed beehive:
Distant seems not relevant(*1). Considering you can change the location of the dominate beehive, whiteout that beehive losing its dominant status. (if dominant (or first selected) beehive is full, the second beehive (if present) will get the resources(honey & wax). (Not 100% sure, but have never seen something that contradicts this so far.)

*1) For beehives that are placed in the same sub-map section. (sub-map section: see: RoB|Talk:Cartography)
I don't know how beehives behave when there close to each other, but also in separate sub-map sections. Considering there is this idea floating around that resources would be split over the available beehives (which is generally wrong. Unless those cases where using beehives on different sub-sections, in which case is makes sense that the resources of all the crops would be split up over the different beehives.)
Or: Every sub-map section uses its own general(caching) hony&wax resource collector. And, on a beehive update tick, if there is a beehive available that's not full in that section. Resources are dumped into that beehive. The beehive selection order is probably the Q of that current, or last available, resources in them. (this collector will look for beehives in its own section first, and than in all 8 neighboring section. (explaining the 3x3 section range limitation of beehives.)


Hmm very interesting. I think its a perfect description of how it works. But I suspect strongly that the beehive choice is done by random arraylists. Most likely because beehives suffer from the same reset the dominant beehive is often selected by random and likely kept dominant till the next reset. By then Its most likely that the first created beehive like most other objects will become dominant again.

But one thing I don't agree with is that beehive updates are probably not sophisticated enough to be only accepting enough crop updates and pass on the remaining to the next beehive. Testing this will be semi hard and I guess till some data is given its hard to prove.

One thing that is bothersome is why tubs and beehives reset in this peculiar way. Tanning tubs simply lack the ability to save the stage they are in causing the bugged reset but beehives do save there data. So if they do save there Q below 100 why isn't it possible for them to work when the number goes above 100Q. It semi sorta sounds as if its intended.
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Re: Advanced beehive experiment

Postby mvgulik » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:16 pm

Beehive resource collection order:
If the beehive selection order is not related to the beehives current qualities. The problem is finding a way that changes the beehive order without changing the beehives current relative qualities (currently I have no good idea's for this.).
If the selection order is related to the beehives current qualities. And the selection order is from high(first) to low(last) quality beehives. A good way to test that seems to be to use 2 beehives with high quality values and low quality crops. In this case the 2 beehive should switch order whenever the higher quality beehive drops below the lower quality beehive.
(In cases here where the two beehives have the same quality, selection order is up for grabs again.)

Xcom wrote:One thing that is bothersome is why tubs and beehives reset in this peculiar way. Tanning tubs simply lack the ability to save the stage they are in causing the bugged reset but beehives do save there data. So if they do save there Q below 100 why isn't it possible for them to work when the number goes above 100 Q. It semi sorta sounds as if its intended.

Could be intentional yes. Although I see no real good reason for the limit being set at 100, I also have no good idea on how it could be not intentional (code/data wise).

@General:
Anyone has some highest quality honey/wax result values from a beehive. I'm thinking in terms of +/-128, +/-256, etc.
O wait. Anon9k, What has been your highest quality results from a beehive so far. Don't think anyone else can even come close to your possible results.
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