PvP Combat Guide [Old Haven]

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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby TeckXKnight » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:01 pm

I think this is the most up to date combat guide now, so I'm going to go ahead and sticky it.
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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby iceheart » Thu May 29, 2014 8:03 pm

NOOBY93 wrote:Wrong, attacking doesn't lower intensity unless it damages the opponent's HP. Also, since the enemy can valorous strike you to remove all your advantage, I don't think using moves to get advantage that use IP is a good idea, unless you have 3x the charisma of your opponent, in which case a pair of well placed stern orders give you 4 advantage with which you can hit your enemy pretty hard.


Didn't valor strike had a hidden penalty of giving the tarbet 2 IP? The IP cost along with the CD isn't something to take lightly.
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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby NOOBY93 » Thu May 29, 2014 9:39 pm

iceheart wrote:
NOOBY93 wrote:Wrong, attacking doesn't lower intensity unless it damages the opponent's HP. Also, since the enemy can valorous strike you to remove all your advantage, I don't think using moves to get advantage that use IP is a good idea, unless you have 3x the charisma of your opponent, in which case a pair of well placed stern orders give you 4 advantage with which you can hit your enemy pretty hard.


Didn't valor strike had a hidden penalty of giving the tarbet 2 IP? The IP cost along with the CD isn't something to take lightly.

In static combat, of course you're not randomly gonna val strike him. However you're also not gonna let him get the advantage provided your agility is near equal. But in movement combat, unless you're going to try to make a combo, to reset advantage the cooldown does not matter at all, and the 2 IP can be ignored because you're both gonna be stacking a lot of IP from just running around thundering.
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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby Bampfylde » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:34 pm

this maybe will seem kindof a weird post, really i want peoples opinions on the stuff i'm saying here i guess, since i don't have that much experience in the situations i'm talking about and i'm looking to learn, but these are my random thoughts and musings about fighting people solo in this game:

even if you know all the moves and are good in spars, in a real situation you can still be completely useless - shaking hands, adrenaline messing with your mind, fear of dying… you need to get rid of these problems.

and also, most people spar with no armour at runspeed, inside walls, where there is not infinite space, you have infinite time since they don't have backup coming, and their escape routes are drastically reduced - no rivers, boats, etc. Moreover, in a normal spar the goal of both sides is the same - in a real fight, one person might be wanting to kill another quickly before backup arrives, and the other may be wanting to either run or delay until backup arrives.

if you are the best in your village at sparring, you can still suck. spars with infinite IP gaining phases are really dumb, imo, or at least they have little use to me, since i will not have backup coming to rescue me most of the time, unless something changes.

so all the [normal] sparring in the world can't prepare you for some things. having backup softens that blow a lot, but if you don't have that backup, you need to have a detailed plan of what your goal is and how you can back out of it if you need to.

Normally to kill someone in a sensible non "duel to the death" type of fight, it seems like you really have to make them think they can kill you and then surprise them really quickly, or just kill them in the first short flurry of moves, otherwise they can just run "forever" (i.e. to backup).

in my first actual fights, i failed on some parts of my plan A, including battle tactics (i punched instead of valstrike :( ), so i didn't manage to achieve my objectives, but i did manage to escape, because i prepared a plan B well… this isn't particularly anything to do with the combat system per se but i think its pretty important advice for anyone who is starting to be interested in pvp.

Also, for fighters with lower stats (like me), here are some breakpoints for valstrike, if i'm wrong please correct me since i'm trying to develop my tactics for fighting stronger players (i.e. stronger than my character):

-they will break your def in one hit @ full attack & full def if their mc=2.29 x your ua (assuming dodge)
-with equal stats valstrike takes off 66% def
-which means you probably want their def~0.2-0.3 of your attack to do good damage (assuming b12 and dodge and that you want 2/3-1/2 of your damage to get through)
-if you valstrike them moving, you only need mc = 0.57 x their ua to break their defense from 100% attack and def
-again, if their def is around 30-50% of your attack and you valstrike them moving in this situation, they will hopefully go down, but it will be hard to valstrike someone moving when they should be on the back foot anyway… unless they suck.

I'm not sure how penetration will feed in here, i guess reducing the critical def they can have somewhat, but since its only 5% with an axe its not that significant?

The main point is that its not often worth blowing your attack bar early, as the weaker combatant, or thats how it seems to me.

apologies for the wall of text, but i would really like to be corrected on any of these points, if i'm wrong.
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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby Ninijutsu » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:27 pm

Bamfylde, for the most part, having larger numbers actually doesn't matter very much. As long as you have at least 3 people and you're all solid fighters and well coordinated, you can take on any number of people.
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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby NOOBY93 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:39 pm

Ninijutsu wrote:Bamfylde, for the most part, having larger numbers actually doesn't matter very much. As long as you have at least 3 people and you're all solid fighters and well coordinated, you can take on any number of people.

...Unless they're also solid fighters and well coordinated. I love how everyone assumes the lower amount of fighters is always, in every situation, more skilled fighters.
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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby Bampfylde » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:44 pm

Bampfylde wrote:about fighting people solo in this game

anyway nvm
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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby Ninijutsu » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:58 pm

NOOBY93 wrote:...Unless they're also solid fighters and well coordinated. I love how everyone assumes the lower amount of fighters is always, in every situation, more skilled fighters.

Large groups are never well coordinated.

Bampfylde wrote:
Bampfylde wrote:about fighting people solo in this game

anyway nvm

Half ur post is about group fighting.
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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby Bampfylde » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:26 pm

not really :S

the only time i really mention it is in the context of one's opponent having backup, and how solo is more unforgiving in some ways… how did i mention fighting in a group otherwise?

but i take it you're saying its not possible to fight without a group? i'm trying to think of ways of minimizing that disadvantage through planning, thats all. and in 1vN (or 1v1 that is soon gonna turn into 1vN) it seems like you really can't afford to waste your attack bar ip and cooldown on a valstrike that won't be super effective, which is

you yourself linked me an amusing video of someone using boats to even the odds in a 5?v1 and take down an opponent, which is exactly what i'm talking about - using some method to even things out and hold someone in place long enough to finish them.

anyway the main points were
1.about panic and fear, which maybe a new player might not get from your guide
2.normal village sparring without armour, inside the walls, at run speed, with no rivers, sometimes teaches you bad habits, and can fuck you over a lot when you're in a real fight and someone has 2k AC.
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Re: Comprehensive PvP Combat Guide (rewritten 4/22/14)

Postby venatorvenator » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:27 pm

Let me make a different question then.

What is your suggestion for a low or mid lever fighter to survive, and perhaps win, a fight against 2-3 good players (or a single player running for backup)? Is this at all possible or has been done before?
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