Ranged Combat

[Linkpwns]

I've waded through a lot of posts about how innefective ranged combat is. And I have ran the numbers and it seems to be even with a q100 Rbow and q100 BoneArrows You can BARELY pierce high ql steel plate sets And you better hope they don't have any other good armour. So late game, when everyone has armour your hits do little damage or are completely absourbed. So the question is: How much does a ranger/archer really help in a team fight or raid or defending your base and stuff? When does a powerful ranger/archer come into play because the role seems very situational. Also how much does the hits really help? Meaning how much are you really assisting your allies by damaging an enemies armour and/or doing a little bit of damage? Also if there are any experience ranged combatants reading this do you have any tips or perhaps..a cool story when ranged combat came into use. Anything at all. Maybe this should be moved to general discussion. Idk either way any responces will be much appreciated <3

[MagicManICT]

Every little bit helps. Movement combat really negates a lot of the effectiveness of archers, though, because of the difficulty with aiming a rbow. The game hasn't really progressed to the point where archers with a raid group/war party are necessary. Maybe if we start to see 30 on 30 battles (compared to the typical 5-10 : 1 ratio) with more limits on being able to move in combat, they'll become more effective.

(note that this is the thoughts and opinions of a raid noob, so take it for what you will)

[rye130]

Archers are good against almost completely unarmored foes regardless of if they're moving and against anyone you can catch not moving. This situations pop up enough to making archery extremely useful at times

[TeckXKnight]

Most people use CTC over bronze or steel but your point still stands, in a frontal conflict bows aren't useful. They are great for exchanging fire from over walls while defending/raiding, lower level raiding, and taking out foragers and other unarmored targets. I've been in conflicts where the only kills achieved were with bows and the melee combatants did a lot of dancing but no one was able to get the killing blow. They're also great in larger conflicts that'll last awhile; please trust me when I say a siege without walls can still last upwards of an hour or two with everyone coming in with alts when they die.

It's worth pushing for one and having one just in-case but don't bring one with you if you're definitely going to be having a slugfest with someone in the highest quality armor-- then that inventory space is better invested in water buckets.

[Xcom]

We ran some numbers on how many times you needed to land a "perfect hit" with someone with best armor vs best Rbows and arrows. Q200 CC and Q150 on other armors vs 110 Rbow and 160 arrows. Taking into account the armor dmg done per hit and assuming every single shot needed to land max damage you could kill someone with 30 perfect hits. That is 30 hits at maximum damage to even start doing dmg to the player. Its about the amount of ranged hits you need to land on someone before there armor breaks down letting some damage bleed through.

Its all theory crafting but you could theoretically kill anyone with 35 Rbows shooting the same target at the same time. You need to also take into account that most people wont stick around if they survive the first hit so you would literally need to Alpha him down. Problems with all this is that most people running around with good armor all have good agility. Your 35 Rbow gang would basically need double the agi of your target to even be able to max dmg on every single shot. Its easier to pump AGI then PER and more useful making this even harder.

Then you also have the problem of aiming speed. Rbows are to slow to aim with to even guarantee that 35 would land a hit. So assuming that you would need more then 35 rangers shooting to make sure at least 35 hits would happen. Assuming your target would stand still for the Rbows to start gaining aiming speed you would need a very long time to get 80-90% aim so majority of hits would happen. Q110 is way to low for that, maybe end of W6 when we had Q180 Rbows around as those Rbows at least could aim with decent speeds compared to the sluggish Q110 ones.

Then you have gang mentality. Noone would stand still if they saw a 40 Rbow gang. Or if one of them got Alphad down. Plus the fact that a rangers attack bar goes to 0 after he shoots and that any combat move prevents continues aiming. You could lift a boat hiding your bow but if 40 people showed up and started to shoot you you would be an idiot if you stuck around or stood still.

In short. Ranged weapons are good for non-armred targets or AFKers. Maybe its useful if you use 5-10 rangers to shoot the characters using the ramer outside your walls during the siege.

[Linkpwns]

Thank you everyone! Especially you Xcom you are a machine when it comes to these things.

[fablewings]

We ran some numbers on how many times you needed to land a "perfect hit" with someone with best armor vs best Rbows and arrows. Q200 CC and Q150 on other armors vs 110 Rbow and 160 arrows. Taking into account the armor dmg done per hit and assuming every single shot needed to land max damage you could kill someone with 30 perfect hits. That is 30 hits at maximum damage to even start doing dmg to the player. Its about the amount of ranged hits you need to land on someone before there armor breaks down letting some damage bleed through.

Its all theory crafting but you could theoretically kill anyone with 35 Rbows shooting the same target at the same time. You need to also take into account that most people wont stick around if they survive the first hit so you would literally need to Alpha him down. Problems with all this is that most people running around with good armor all have good agility. Your 35 Rbow gang would basically need double the agi of your target to even be able to max dmg on every single shot. Its easier to pump AGI then PER and more useful making this even harder.

Then you also have the problem of aiming speed. Rbows are to slow to aim with to even guarantee that 35 would land a hit. So assuming that you would need more then 35 rangers shooting to make sure at least 35 hits would happen. Assuming your target would stand still for the Rbows to start gaining aiming speed you would need a very long time to get 80-90% aim so majority of hits would happen. Q110 is way to low for that, maybe end of W6 when we had Q180 Rbows around as those Rbows at least could aim with decent speeds compared to the sluggish Q110 ones.

Then you have gang mentality. Noone would stand still if they saw a 40 Rbow gang. Or if one of them got Alphad down. Plus the fact that a rangers attack bar goes to 0 after he shoots and that any combat move prevents continues aiming. You could lift a boat hiding your bow but if 40 people showed up and started to shoot you you would be an idiot if you stuck around or stood still.

In short. Ranged weapons are good for non-armred targets or AFKers. Maybe its useful if you use 5-10 rangers to shoot the characters using the ram outside your walls during the siege.

So, almost virtually useless?

[rye130]

We ran some numbers on how many times you needed to land a "perfect hit" with someone with best armor vs best Rbows and arrows. Q200 CC and Q150 on other armors vs 110 Rbow and 160 arrows. Taking into account the armor dmg done per hit and assuming every single shot needed to land max damage you could kill someone with 30 perfect hits. That is 30 hits at maximum damage to even start doing dmg to the player. Its about the amount of ranged hits you need to land on someone before there armor breaks down letting some damage bleed through.

Its all theory crafting but you could theoretically kill anyone with 35 Rbows shooting the same target at the same time. You need to also take into account that most people wont stick around if they survive the first hit so you would literally need to Alpha him down. Problems with all this is that most people running around with good armor all have good agility. Your 35 Rbow gang would basically need double the agi of your target to even be able to max dmg on every single shot. Its easier to pump AGI then PER and more useful making this even harder.

Then you also have the problem of aiming speed. Rbows are to slow to aim with to even guarantee that 35 would land a hit. So assuming that you would need more then 35 rangers shooting to make sure at least 35 hits would happen. Assuming your target would stand still for the Rbows to start gaining aiming speed you would need a very long time to get 80-90% aim so majority of hits would happen. Q110 is way to low for that, maybe end of W6 when we had Q180 Rbows around as those Rbows at least could aim with decent speeds compared to the sluggish Q110 ones.

Then you have gang mentality. Noone would stand still if they saw a 40 Rbow gang. Or if one of them got Alphad down. Plus the fact that a rangers attack bar goes to 0 after he shoots and that any combat move prevents continues aiming. You could lift a boat hiding your bow but if 40 people showed up and started to shoot you you would be an idiot if you stuck around or stood still.

In short. Ranged weapons are good for non-armred targets or AFKers. Maybe its useful if you use 5-10 rangers to shoot the characters using the ram outside your walls during the siege.

So, almost virtually useless?

Useless against someone in full max quality gear. Not everyone is always in full max quality gear though

[TeckXKnight]

Unless you're fighting someone from a top level faction they aren't going to be in the highest quality gear and even then they might not be. Most players settle into q90 bronze until they can trade up. Just as it's a grind for you to raise the quality of your rbow, it's a painful grind to get better armor.