Unarmed,Melee,Marksmanship

[eltomatoss]

Can MM(bow) stand against Melee or UA figher as equal ?
Can Only UA Based toon can stand against melee based or melee and ua mixed toon ?

I noticed that most raiders/fighter in hnh use Bay12 axe now or Sword and Shield back in w6 , while some ppl say that ua beats melee but i never seen ua fighter

[TeckXKnight]

If someone is running you down going in for the melee then MM loses. A mix of UAC and MC is usually considered optimal so that you can get the best of both worlds and this also permits you to use the B12 axe successfully, as you cannot use a shield when using a B12 so you can't use Block. If perfectly equal in stats and skill, I'm of the opinion that UAC beats MC right now but that can easily change if there are any combat tweaks.

Unsurprisingly, MM is best when you can maintain range with an enemy. It makes for a great first attack to open combat and it's good for shooting over walls. Otherwise MC and UAC hits break the aim meter when using MM so firing at them becomes difficult. Breaking through their armor is usually not an easy task either.

[eltomatoss]

UA and Melee is optimal setting you say , but what about full UA vs melee +ua mix or full melee , in a setting of 1vs1 or 1vs multiple ( i know that would mainly depend on an armor and con )

Btw is it possible to overpower someone who has more ua/melee or both than you, with having more agi ?

[TeckXKnight]

Because of the way exponential cost and square root returns work, you'll get the most benefit by splitting UAC and MC instead of just investing an equal number of lp into just one type. That said, mixing UAC and MC has the highest player skill requirement and if you just lack the combat experience you'll lose regardless. There are still substantial benefits to focusing on one skill over splitting both though, as having a much higher UAC than your opponent gives you more delta against them and having a lot more MC means you have multiplicatively more attack and defense than them. So if you're asking who would win between the three? Whoever the more experienced player is.

Winning against groups is almost impossible to do. Before you could if your UAC was substantially higher than your opponents but delta has since been changed and you can't pull that off consistently anymore. If you're outnumbered by equally skilled opponents, you're probably going to lose and you should be looking for an exit strategy.

Ya, it's really easy to overpower someone who has more UAC and/or MC than you. The issue is that most of the titan players at this point are also the most hardened combat veterans so even if you had better stats than them, you would lose. Once again, it's the nature of diminishing returns so that character stats and skills don't automatically win and player skill matters. That said there are thresholds. If a player has 100 UAC and is fighting someone with 1,200 MC, the 1,200 MC player can just stab them and win without ever having to worry about their defenses. There has to be a reasonable gap like 300 v 500.

Armor and con matter very little in combat. If your defense is broken and you're taking damage, your opponent is gaining combat advantage over you so you're in an uphill battle. Swords and axes have piercing damage as well so a percent of the damage that they hit you with will just ignore your armor no matter how good it is. There are desperate gambits you can pull off if you're brave enough, such as burning No Pain No Gain and trying to break your opponent's defenses too to give you a chance, but generally you're fighting a losing battle now.

Agi probably matters more than damage soak.

[eltomatoss]

so in the end is more about how well you can use your char in combat instead ua or ua + mc mix

[MagicManICT]

Yup. There's an old discussion floating around here somewhere on the matter, but I'm not sure how relevant it is with the changes since it was last discussed. Teck has a good summary of the issue, though.

If you want to learn, make a bunch of throwaway alts and just go get in random fights. When you get the hang of it, you can invest more into one character to make them more survivable. Note that sparring is available and a lot of these guys will take offers to do so with the right incentives. (Then again, they might say yes and then kill you just for shits and giggles.)

[petal]

You should have 2 separate characters , one with MM call it your Ranger, one with UA/Melle and call it your warrior. You cant pick one over the other because thats like comparing apples to oranges.

If you put a Warrior vs a Ranger the warrior will win because of how the ranged mechanics work. You target has to be still while you charge your arrow, if the target moves even slightly the entire bar resets. Therefore the your warrior should deal with DIRECT pvp encounters.

Now on the other hand if you take your warrior with lets say 20 UA/MELLE and take your Ranger with 20 MM and have them both hunt wild animals to bring back to camp, the Ranger will do it significantly easier. If you put the warrior in shallow water and even glitch the Wild animals (boars, bears, foxes), build your combat points unfairly, and even use the twitch technique, the Ranger on a boat will kill all the same animals at 3x the speed at absolutely no risk using only the bear minimum q10 sling and q10 rocks.

Furthermore when thieves and enemies leave scents in your camp , the stats of the ranger better detect it than that of your warrior. Also once you find the enemy hearthfire, in many cases it can be enclosed allowing your ranger to spawn and snipe them from a distance your warrior couldn't, and in this instance summoning enemies that stand still bypasses the rangers weakness of moving enemies.

In other words, both are equally important. In fact I make my ranger my chef also because the primary stat she uses is Perception which scales for scent finding, marksman damage, and cooking. filling many roles that the warrior (who scales on str,con,agi) cant fill.

[TeckXKnight]

The accuracy bar doesn't reset, you just lose some accuracy progress when the target moves. At higher levels of MM you can still usually make some progress against a target moving but it's not going to be enough to stop them before they've closed the distance.

[eltomatoss]

what if you just need one , UA,UA+Melee, Rangered , and just grind theyr stats?

[TeckXKnight]

If you're a new player I'm going to advise marksman first so you can get some kills off of animals and improve your circumstances most rapidly. Get that to 2x as high as the highest quality ranged weapon you can get and then swap off and start buffing Melee Combat. Melee is the simplest and doesn't involve gambling with maneuvers. Once you have some confidence in combat, and that'll already put you leagues ahead of most players, then decide if you want to stick to MC or transition to UAC + MC.

Marksman is nice in that it more or less caps out at 2x your sling/bow/r-bow quality and anything over that is a waste, so you can just stop putting points into it after awhile.