Palisade Problems

[Tekiel]

I've learned several hard lessons building a palisade but I'm at a point where I don't know if I can salvage it or not.
I built all the way around and then was off by one square. My two corner posts have 3 spaces between them so there's no gate option.
Is there a way to build a cornerpost next to a cornerpost so I can close the gap?

Or is there some other means to remove your own palisade wall sections?
Bashing isn't an option I don't have anywhere near the strength to remove them that way and I'm hoping, since this is MY palisade, I might have alternative options when it comes to removing parts.

(I do have paved area between them it looks like it's simply a matter of a 3-wide gap)
I'm new and didn't learn about the building tool to check space until after I built the two cornerposts. It wasn't inherently visible so I had to eyeball it and the way it looked in the wonky way I had to end up building it (thanks to learning some other hard lessons with it) made it look like two squares. Unfortunately my only gate option is now up against a river so I can't expand out to fix it either.

[virre111]

You can only build a new one next to the old, but that's not fun, and you need a high ammount of str to bash the old one down, if you want it gone, somewhere like 350 +, with a pickaxe.
Or you could get a ram, then you only need 16 I believe.

Good luck, you'll need it

[Tekiel]

For someone with 10 strength and no access to metal yet this is going to be exceptionally difficult.
I'm seriously considering just quitting the game over this because of the frustration level.

The amount of time and effort put into getting the land and skills up to the point where I can build a palisade...
added to how completely easy (almost likely) it is to completely screw up your build if you're new...
versus how hard it is to get to the point to fix such a simple to make mistake.

You're treated as an attacker fighting your own defenses to fix a mistake where you, as the owner, should be able to fairly easily undo.
I wouldn't mind if it destroyed all the resource and I had to start that whole section over again... but to have to be set up very nearly to be able to attack someone else's builds just so I can undo my own?

Gah... so frustrating.

I started playing because I was looking for a game with the level of challenge presented by H&H.
Nice crafting, survival, death means something, etc.
But the biggest threat I've face isn't other players, it's figuring out how to build a wall with exactly the right spacing for a gate I've never seen before... and I can't fix it.

[czaper2]

Red = your current walls
Yellow = new walls you need to build
Black = posts
Green = gate

It's nasty looking, but solves your problem.

[Holya]

virre111 wrote:You can only build a new one next to the old, but that's not fun, and you need a high ammount of str to bash the old one down, if you want it gone, somewhere like 350 +, with a pickaxe.
Or you could get a ram, then you only need 16 I believe.

Good luck, you'll need it

Palisade soak = 25, and siege damage is equal to the square root of your strength.
You'd need 36 strength with a battering ram, 484 with a sledgehammer, 576 with a pickaxe, 625 with a stone axe or 676 with no tools to break a palisade.
For a ram, however, you could simply spawn a couple alts and break it, since it allows 4 players to combine their siege damage.
Regardless, I would HIGHLY recommend just moving entirely, the highest traffic areas in the game are rivers, and the likelihood of people attacking your hermitage if you're 2 tiles away from a river is much greater than if you're not visible on the minimap from the river.

I suggest you move so far from that river that you're not visible on an ender's client map from the river and download Apoc Light if you haven't already.
If you intend to play for more than a few weeks, I'd also suggest you build a brick wall ASAP, either mine your own materials or buy them.
To buy them, you'll need a village idol, and something to sell people(you'd be surprised what nublets can obtain that's considered valuable end-game, I've sold steel for blueberries).
Alternatively, if you want to mine it on your own; kill a bunch of bears for strength FEP, buy prospecting and search until you find an iron node.

Your first Bwall should be small, but in an area where it will be easy for you to expand so you'll have room to do whatever you need to do later on.
Also general nublet advice, unless you intend to specialize in one recourse for trading, you'll need to make several alternate characters to be efficient.
I'd suggest making a forager(60 explor, survival = highest quality foragable you've found+1, as much perception as you can get and maybe marksman for hunting).
A farmer, simple enough, just level farming, if you've the choice level constitution over other attributes, since it's the only one that makes farming easier, but the effect is minimal.
A crafter, this character would usually level dext, psy, cooking, sewing, carpentry, and if you want to be a jeweler get smithing and strength also.
That said, I'd highly recommend, unless you intend to hardcore this game, make your miner a smith and just buy your jewelry.
A miner; Simple enough, get as much strength as you can, along with smithing if you want him to be a smith rather than your crafter.
Lastly, what most people consider their main, a warrior. Most common build in my experience is 5UA:2MC, like 200 MM, evenly leveled Str, Con, Agi and if you intend to group fight, charisma. Warrior can also be a miner, but be careful if you're scented and in an unprotected mine.

Sorry for the wall of text, it's 4:30am here and I've nothing to do.
Anywho, if you're interested in playing this game long-term, I'd be happy to help you obtain a brick wall, plus some misc stuff you'll need starting out.
PM me if you'd like~~~tidle~

[Denkar]

If planning out your base is already such a huge problem, I suggest you stop playing right now and save yourself the frustration that is to come...

[Tekiel]

yes. that's the simplest solution to the problem that I can see.
Unfortunately it's very inefficient as I'm yielding more land internally to compensate for what I really believe should be a fixable problem.

I was frustrated and venting before (sorry for that) but my rationale still stands so let me try and put it in a less "venting" explanation.

Walls are built to be defensible so, sure, an attacker should need offensive equipment to take them down.
Someone on the inside with permissions has other means of dealing with them. Sure, it should take some effort but it shouldn't be as difficult than it currently is.
After all, we can repair a wall without having to bash it down and build an entirely new one. If it's consider a viable option to patch a wall then it should be as easy to modify it in the reverse method and let owners remove the wall.
That would just make more sense to me.

This preserves the idea that planning ahead provides definite benefit. If it took effort to undo a mistake (perhaps the same amount of resources to remove a section that it took to build it) then it has a definite cost in time and effort to fix a mistake or remove an old wall upon expanding the protected region.

As it stands now you can fairly easily get to a point where you can build palisade walls but you can not fairly easily get to a point to remove them. This seems unbalanced.
A new player could wall themselves in to their own defenses with no escape and that just doesn't make any sense at all.

[Tekiel]

If planning out your base is already such a huge problem, I suggest you stop playing right now and save yourself the frustration that is to come...

Planning out my base is not such a huge problem.

The problem is the game is highly reliant on a grid system as far as building goes and there's no readily evident method for a new player to access such a grid.
That makes it exceptionally easy to make a simple mistake.
The problem is compounded by the fact that the game makes building an essentially indestructible wall for a new player relatively easy but provides no recourse but starting over as a "fix".

Things I learned trying to build...
Roundpole walls can go next to a river, but palisades can't because roundpole fencing can go on ground that doesn't support paving.
- this means you can't "rough out" your build in roundpole because other walls can't necessarily go in the same place.
- this isn't evident until you learn the hard way but it's a mistake you can learn from even if it means shifting your entire build...
unless you have building overlapping new borders because you planned to put them up against a wall that can't be there now.
This can also mean needing to destroy other permanent objects placed against walls, such as kilns (finding that much clay for a new player took some doing)

This was all done using the wiki page and other online resources. There are gaps in what's explained and what isn't that appear to be from concepts learned players take for granted that new players won't know yet.

I've dealt with all that and more and I haven't just quit in frustration before.
My problem wasn't in planning it's in what I see as a fundamental flaw in the game that frustrated me.
I came here expecting certain challenges. Learning curve, building up skills, requirements to gather resources and slowly build up what can be done, probable periodic issues with PVP, etc.
I didn't expect the game to present surprise catch-22 situations. Most games look at such situations as a flaw in the mechanics and work to either remedy them or, if they're intended to be that way, make it clear or fixable.
So far it doesn't look like this game really does that.

Fortunately most of the player base is pretty decent and not particularly rude or snide. There are such out there but I'm surprise at how friendly most of the people actually were given the nature of the game. It was a pleasant surprise.

[Tekiel]

Thank you for the explanations Holya. Some good food for thought.

The river I'm on has a lot of seemingly abandoned (but still claimed) structures and in several days of playing I've only seen three people. It looked like it was a relatively dead play area so I figured the river might not be quite as dangerous. I'll have to rethink that.

[Holya]

yes. that's the simplest solution to the problem that I can see.
Unfortunately it's very inefficient as I'm yielding more land internally to compensate for what I really believe should be a fixable problem.

I was frustrated and venting before (sorry for that) but my rationale still stands so let me try and put it in a less "venting" explanation.

Walls are built to be defensible so, sure, an attacker should need offensive equipment to take them down.
Someone on the inside with permissions has other means of dealing with them. Sure, it should take some effort but it shouldn't be as difficult than it currently is.
After all, we can repair a wall without having to bash it down and build an entirely new one. If it's consider a viable option to patch a wall then it should be as easy to modify it in the reverse method and let owners remove the wall.
That would just make more sense to me.

This preserves the idea that planning ahead provides definite benefit. If it took effort to undo a mistake (perhaps the same amount of resources to remove a section that it took to build it) then it has a definite cost in time and effort to fix a mistake or remove an old wall upon expanding the protected region.

As it stands now you can fairly easily get to a point where you can build palisade walls but you can not fairly easily get to a point to remove them. This seems unbalanced.
A new player could wall themselves in to their own defenses with no escape and that just doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm not trying to be rude, just realistic.
This is an elitist game. Sure there are casual hermits scattered about, but if you don't intend to put a lot of work in and play smart, unless you get incredibly lucky, you're going to get raided and die. Lose all of your stats, everything you've worked on, because that's the way the world works. The strong pick on the weak, that said, in this game it's MUCH easier than people act it is to be relatively safe, unless you piss off some large village that otherwise wouldn't waste their time on such a valueless target.
Just need a Bwall, to ramcheck daily(preferably every 8-10 hours), have maybe 600-800 armor so you can't be slinged/difficulty killing you with a wooden bow. Only way for your town to be destroyed then is if somebody ram sits, or if you get longwalled, which nobody will put the effort in to do, if you're just a simple hermit.