Boshaw Vault Destroyed.

[Potjeh]

It's not just stupid, it's pants on head retarded.

[Valten21]

World 6

[daemmonium]

It's not just stupid, it's pants on head retarded.

I had a similar discussion with Loftar about FF changes mid-world too. But he had a point that it was a broken mechanic.
Altho I must say, I'd prefer it to stay the way it was, not because I'm a butthurt smith, but because of the things that were already done with that broken mechanic, and the huge difference that was made that way.

[Potjeh]

It only hurts actual villages, vaults will still be alive and kicking. If people can't use islands they'll just use mountains instead.

[Badich]

good butthurt.
kill Taar again? wtf?

[beef2]

even when I'm not playing, like late w4 and early w5, people still think I'm out there and amateurs even pretend to be me.

mmmm just like pHp

[NaoWhut]

It's ok... people pretend to be me all the time =o

[Onionfighter]

I would be interested in any logs that talk about possible future developments. I hope that it would get posted on the forums (I don't go on the haven irc much). If it is too long for the forums, just put it in the code box:

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blah
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[boshaw]

@Onion

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13:35 loftar > In other news, it seems Jorb may be finalizing his moving around, at last.
13:35 Tonky > ?! what do you mean
13:35 Tonky > ah nvm lol
13:35 loftar > He's been moving to a new apartment.
13:35 Tonky > right lol i remember
13:35 *InsertName Part ()
13:35 loftar > But it's been a bit chaotic, so it's been taking him like 2-3 months now. :P
13:35 loftar > When that happens, we hope to resume weekly dev sessions on Haven again.
13:36 Tonky > o_O
13:36 Tonky > oh nice
13:36 Tonky > so what are you going to do with XMPP notifications now?
13:36 loftar > Though we'll most likely be focusing on larger changes for a while, so it'll probably be some time before it manifests itself in practical changes.
13:36 loftar > Well, that remains to be seen.
13:36 Tonky > hmm
13:37 loftar > Anyway, I just got home from him, after having a talk about the future of Haven.
13:37 Tonky > that is a good news
13:37 Tonky > oh nice :D
13:37 Tonky > whats the future looking like so far? :D
13:37 loftar > We had a really interesting discussion on character development, and if it pans out somewhat as discussed, I'm more excited than ever.
13:38 loftar > Though it's a bit mean of me after saying so much, I'd rather not tell too much right now, because the ideas are really early and probably subject to much change and revision.
13:38 Tonky > xD
13:38 loftar > But they revolve along the lines of making the world more "magic".
13:38 loftar > Less spreadsheets and numbers and more lore.
13:39 Tonky > not magic magic, is it?
13:39 loftar > No, not magic magic. :)
13:39 Tonky > :)
13:39 Tonky > save that for salem :P
13:39 loftar > I mean "magic" as in "beautiful and special". :)
13:39 Tonky > he he
13:40 Tonky > lets see what kind of lores coming in
13:41 Tonky > say, how long will it take at least?
13:41 Tonky > a couple of months? or longer?
13:41 loftar > It is somewhat related to these old concepts: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1597&p=18105
13:41 loftar > Well, it's hard to tell so far.
13:41 loftar > We do want to make some rather fundamental changes, though.
13:42 loftar > I mean, for one thing, I want to transition the server to the new object system, and that in itself means rewriting a lot of things.
13:42 Tonky > does that mean a possible world reset?
13:42 *sabinati Part ()
13:43 loftar > Well, the world will be reset at one point or another, that much is for sure. If nothing else, I'm working on a new map generator.
13:43 Tonky > :D
13:44 loftar > But it will certainly be some time before we can get it all working.
13:44 Tonky > whats the new map generator like?
13:44 Tonky > right
13:44 Squatthrust > Less penis shaped land features?
13:44 Tonky > lol
13:44 loftar > Actually yes, less penis shaped land features. :(
13:44 loftar > That's the worst aspect of it, I guess. :(
13:45 loftar > Mainly though, I'm intending for it to have much more interesting terrain features.
13:45 Tonky > sounds good
13:45 Squatthrust > New terrain types?
13:45 loftar > I'm actually basing it on a fractal generator this time.
13:45 loftar > Maybe, but that's not strictly necessary.
13:45 Tonky > fractal generator?
13:45 Tonky > sec, let me look up dictionary xD
13:45 loftar > The main things is the formation of the terrain types.
13:46 loftar > You may want to look at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=245
13:46 Tonky > im still checking that pic of dragon xD
13:46 loftar > The generator suggested in that thread had a lot of problems, but I think I have now been able to think of proper ways to counterbalance them.
13:47 loftar > While keeping its nicer features.
13:48 loftar > This image is relevant to the discussion: http://www.2funnyguys.com/hahMaps/11-9-9/smalle5k.png
13:49 Tonky > so, are we having some ocean? :o
13:49 loftar > Not necessarily.
13:49 loftar > I don't think so.
13:49 Squatthrust > If there is going to be ocean, I think bigger boats are warranted.
13:49 Squatthrust > Longships?
13:49 loftar > Think of it mainly as laying out forest/grasslands/heaths/swamps/lakes.
13:50 Tonky > oh
13:51 Tonky > fractal is a big word to me, i dont undersand it in my own mother tongue xD
13:51 Tonky > but i guess i got the vague idea, i hope...
13:52 loftar > Well, the primary property of fractals that I want to mimic is the aspect of having meaningful details on multiple levels of scale.
13:52 loftar > I mean, one of the main problems with the current world is that it's pretty much completely homogenous and meaningless on larges scales.
13:52 Tonky > meaningful as in?
13:52 loftar > Anywhere you go in the world, it looks pretty much the same.
13:52 Tonky > ah
13:53 loftar > You seldomly discover any unusual or cool terrain features. Especially not unusual ones.
13:53 Tonky > right
13:53 loftar > Which makes exploration a lot more boring than it should be.
13:53 Tonky > which makes me get lost on map :P
13:54 Squatthrust > So does that mean that terrain features are going to be more grouped, i.e. mountain ranges and large flat plains?
13:54 loftar > Not necessarily grouped. There is that aspect of it as well, though.
13:54 loftar > But mainly, I want there to be "unusual" features.
13:54 loftar > So that you could wander around the map and find "interesting" terrain.
13:55 Squatthrust > What do you mean by "interesting"?
13:55 Tonky > unique mountain top!
13:55 loftar > If you look at that map of Peter's that I linked to, for instance, it has some quite interesting beach areas, or mountain shapes and such things.
13:55 loftar > It has some small openings in the forests and such things.
13:55 loftar > Glades, if you will.
13:56 loftar > And, vice versa, smaller or greater groves in its larger grasslands.
13:56 loftar > Forest is not necessarily the "default" terrain.
13:57 Squatthrust > I'm liking the sound of all this, I can't wait to name terrain features after myself. :-D
13:57 loftar > Distant areas of the map actually look different.
13:57 Tonky > would look more like real life map then
13:57 Tonky > real world*
13:57 Squatthrust > Will these significant terrain features correspond to higher quality resources?
13:57 loftar > I should hope so.
13:57 loftar > No, not necessarily.
13:58 loftar > Though they may be related in some ways.
13:58 loftar > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zawil ... y_cm02.jpg
13:58 loftar > That is really beautiful.
13:59 loftar > I've been wandering the woods a bit lately now during spring, and I really wish I could mimic some of the flower beds and such things in Haven.
13:59 Squatthrust > Look at all of that edelweiss
13:59 Tonky > are they edelweiss?
13:59 Squatthrust > I dunno, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw that.
13:59 Tonky > where is this, loftar? never heard of zawilec
13:59 loftar > No, they are not Edelweiss. :)
13:59 Tonky > i dont think they are edelweiss, squatt
13:59 Tonky > ah right
14:00 Tonky > ive seen them, they dont look so pretty when you get close to them :P
14:00 loftar > That picture is apparently from Poland, but that same flower is very common around here, too.
14:00 Tonky > oh poland
14:01 Tonky > right, so north european
14:01 loftar > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemone_nemorosa
14:02 Tonky > anemone!
14:02 Tonky > our anemone looks totally different xD
14:02 Tonky > anyways, thats really cute, the flower bed
14:05 Tonky > http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%95% ... _Japan.png
14:05 Tonky > my favorite flower bed here :)
14:05 loftar > We also spoke about seasons in Haven. Jorb is really hyped about having them. :)
14:05 Tonky > how many seasons? 4?
14:05 loftar > Yes, flower beds are pretty. :)
14:05 loftar > And yes, 4 seasons.
14:06 Squatthrust > It's gonna be rough starting in winter though.
14:06 Tonky > lol
14:06 Tonky > how long one season is gonna last?
14:06 loftar > Not necessarily, though. If the map generator can create some kind of "lowlands" or something, the winters could be milder there.
14:07 loftar > Preemptively, 1 RL week each. That's not set in stone, though.
14:07 Tonky > :o area difference then!
14:07 Squatthrust > And bears would be hibernating.
14:07 Tonky > bears sleeping in winter!
14:07 loftar > There'd be white foxes instead, though. ;)
14:07 Tonky > exciting :D
14:07 Sage > wolves
14:07 Squatthrust > Oh, more foxes I can fistfight with.
14:08 loftar > Seasons are a lot of work, though, so I'm not sure when we'll do them.
14:08 Squatthrust > I'd think drawing them would be harder than coding them.
14:08 loftar > But we'll likely have them sooner or later.
14:08 Tonky > right
14:08 loftar > Not necessarily, though. There's a lot of... weird stuff involved in coding them.
14:09 loftar > In particular with regard to the transitions between them.
14:09 Sotsa > if you're lazy you could just hue change your way to victory
14:09 Squatthrust > Maybe a temperature guage, not visible to players, that just acts like the current farming q (+- a certain number each day) as a transition
14:09 Tonky > so we are having snow too? when season comes
14:09 Sotsa > but if there are going to be actual game mechanic changes to be added to winter, i would assume you'd have to change a confusing clusterfuck of code
14:10 loftar > It would be pointless to have seasons with them affecting the game mechanics. ;)
14:10 Sotsa > i'm assuming your code is a confusing clusterfuck loftar :V
14:10 loftar > It's actually not, though. :)
14:10 Sotsa > i mean since the game mechanics are a confusing clusterfuck
14:10 Sotsa > orly?
14:10 loftar > The server code, I can assure you, is a lot cleaner than the client code.
14:11 Squatthrust > Java is just a dirty platform.
14:11 Sotsa > lol i dont know code tho
14:11 loftar > Because it isn't written in Java. :)
14:11 Sotsa > lol
14:11 Sotsa > but i mean like all the things that should be ruled by the same logic, but isnt
14:11 Sotsa > for example entering/exiting places like houses, mineholes etc
14:11 Sotsa > all worked in different ways right?
14:12 loftar > Well, those are a bit ugly right now, but that's one of the things I'm going to solve with the new object system.
14:12 Sotsa > sweet \o/
14:12 Sotsa > will you also fix the barter stands
14:12 Squatthrust > I missed this new object system. Can you highlight some of the major points?
14:12 Sotsa > if bait doesn't work how about threats?
14:12 Sotsa > i will personally travel to sweden and punch you in the dick
14:12 loftar > That depends in what way you mean "fixing" the barter stands.
14:12 Sotsa > lol
14:13 Sotsa > making me able to trade one item for several
14:13 Sotsa > both ways
14:13 loftar > Squatthrust: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18921#p220499
14:13 Squatthrust > This is the third time someone has asked Loftar about barter stands.
14:13 loftar > Yes, I'll fix that sooner or later.
14:13 Sotsa > also, loftar, why can't i set hearthlings on fire
14:13 Sotsa > .> this would be hilarious
14:13 Sotsa > watch them run for the river
14:14 Squatthrust > Including fire will lead down a very bad road.
14:14 loftar > Well, either way, the largest upcoming changes are certainly going to be related to the characters themselves and their development.
14:14 loftar > You may have missed where I said it above, but Jorb seems to be finalizing his move, at last.
14:14 Sotsa > [07:13] <Squatthrust> Including fire will lead down a very bad road.
14:14 loftar > So we hope to resume weekly dev sessions by then.
14:14 Sotsa > the road is only bad for sissy carebears
14:14 Tonky > object changes include seeds as liquid?
14:15 Sotsa > pls pls ps pls pls
14:15 loftar > Yes, certainly.
14:15 Tonky > :) cant wait
14:15 *Kabaru Join (Kabaru@A9F17730.8B353E52.83DD38B3.IP)
14:16 Sotsa > oh, loftar, what if in barter stands, you were able to set abstract values for items
14:16 Sotsa > like when people make their trade threads
14:16 Sotsa > this item witll be worth 100 *points* and another worth 50 *points*
14:16 Sotsa > so you would be able to pay with different items
14:16 loftar > Well, that's an interesting thought.
14:16 loftar > I'll consider it.
14:16 loftar > It's probably not a bad idea.
14:16 Sotsa > \o/
14:16 loftar > It requires more UI, though. :P
14:16 Sotsa > well thats how people conduct business on forums
14:17 Sotsa > yeah
14:17 Tonky > btw, loftar, a friend of mine has found this stupidest ever personal claim
14:17 Sotsa > but think of the possibilities
14:17 Tonky > a pclaim like an equator
14:17 loftar > Oh, dem claims. :(
14:17 Tonky > not north to south, but east to west
14:17 Tonky > a loooooooooooooooong one
14:17 Squatthrust > Ugh, I've found claims the size of Siberia
14:17 loftar > Ah.
14:17 Squatthrust > It always has at least one good curiosity in it too.
14:17 loftar > Yes, I've considered constraining pclaims to certain aspect ratios.
14:18 Tonky > yes please :(
14:18 Sotsa > why not just make them not transfer LP to ancestor
14:18 Sotsa > i assume thats the only reason for stupidly large claims
14:18 Tonky > normal big claims are okay, but this equator like claim is just too stupid
14:18 Sotsa > and LP banks are pretty gay
14:20 loftar > Well, I'll be off to bed.
14:20 Tonky > how about the cost of claim goes up as it is further from the claim stake?
14:20 Sotsa > night :( dream about barter stands
14:20 loftar > I'm really excited about the future right now, though.
14:20 Tonky > ah right, have a nice rest
14:20 Squatthrust > Good night, or morning.
14:20 Tonky > :)
14:20 loftar > If our current plans pan out, it has so much potential for greatness.
14:20 Tonky > if you cant sleep, come back and chat :P
14:20 loftar > Well, nightie-night. :)

Anyway any mention about this exploit from loftar lately? Couldn't the fix be the same used for mineholes and XR's which doesn't allow you to hop walls? Also if this gets fixed i'm assuming village idols and charterstones will be as well maybe?

[GrimEggbert]

Talk is cheap. Call me when it actually happens.