War between the Panda and the NNN

[cauda_draconis]

Well, I tried to keep it on a reasonable level. Back to the insults then I guess.

I dont know what to discuss with the man, who starts with "your opinion means nothing, since i know what that game should be".

Ok, you have access to the Jorb's lotus ears, and i have not, so that's true, your opinion is de facto wights more. I do not like this state of affairs, but since i have no access to Jorb ears, i could just oppose you in a much lesser range of opportunities, but i will use all i can, be sure.

[burgingham]

Well, then enlighten me why you think a hv built in a few hours by a single person, using stuff like construction sings and crossroads for protection (???), being a teeny tiny little walled segment on the map should offer better protection than a multilayered town, with thousands of bricks, grand roads, houses whereever you look, fields, animals, players meeting, trading, training all day, setting up markets, building banners and statues to make their town even greater etc. etc?

[cauda_draconis]

Well, then enlighten me why you think a hv built in a few hours by a single person, using stuff like construction sings and crossroads for protection (???), being a teeny tiny little walled segment on the map should offer better protection than a multilayered town, with thousands of bricks, grand roads, houses whereever you look, fields, animals, players meeting, trading, training all day, setting up markets, building banners and statues to make their town even greater etc. etc?

But you dont want to make Pande more protected. You want make my vault less protected!

What you want is just "we are top fraction, and if we could not kill every least noob in the world in a moment, that means that game mechanic is broken".

[burgingham]

That is no answer to my question. Pande doesn't need any more protection and yes your vault has to be less protected, because in a few hours you all by yourself managed to make yourself invulnerable. No effort necessary, happy griefing guaranteed.

[Potjeh]

Well of course vaults should be less protected, because it's physically impossible for them to be more protected.

Anyway, the way I see it the main problem is that you can't really hurt the enemy's economy thanks to heartvaults. And let's face it, characters are a dime a dozen with this new LP system (and that's a GOOD thing, because it encourages PvP), so killing them accomplishes nothing.

The general idea is to force people to either give away the location of their infrastructure by rolling vault and village into one, or invest a metric fuckton of resources into a great big castle so they can keep their infrastructure hidden. The latter of course means that they'd be sacrificing security for obscurity (resources spent on castle are resources not spent on village defences), and even if their infrastructure doesn't get hit losing an expensive castle would still hurt like hell. And by losing I really mean losing, possibility to take over villages by force is a must.

[cauda_draconis]

That is no answer to my question. Pande doesn't need any more protection and yes your vault has to be less protected, because in a few hours you all by yourself managed to make yourself invulnerable. No effort necessary, happy griefing guaranteed.

Oh, that's very simple, you should just remove the silly restrict "brickwalls could not be bashed barehanded". Atm only you and NNN are able to build char with 5k strength.

It's just a simple thought experiment you could easily made to understand what shit game will become after adding your potential changes.

[burgingham]

Takeovers definitely should be possible. Question is how?

Also Avu recently suggested that every buildable object should have tons of soak to make it impossible to smash to pieces in an hour what has been built in months. You either need high str chars which still would be very slow in doing it or preferably heavy siege machinery even for stuff like cupboards and such.

[Potjeh]

Quoting part of my post in Inner Party, hope that's fine with the devs cause it might reveal a bit of their plans. And yes, it's just a part, I'm well known for writing essays.

As for long term, I'm in favour of siege camps. IMO we should look to make siege warfare fairly symmetrical, which would make balancing this stuff a lot easier.

The way I see it the camp itself would act like a tower to protect your siege equipment while it dries. Of course, you might have to expand this with additional towers to get enough space for a worthwhile batch of siege weapons. The camp should be the only instant tower (as in no drying time, it can still take a long time to build), as it's the only thing that you couldn't protect; to avoid using them as instant defences they should have high cost and pitiful range (shooting range, claim range can be much bigger). It should be a huuuuuge auth drain, of course, and preferably scale with distance from main village once we finally replace the current fast travel system with something that respects distance.

The camp should have to be built so it's claim touches the enemy's village claim. It's claim would work like village claim in that you could build defensive structures on it, but it couldn't be expanded like normal village claim (to avoid using them to cheaply spread your village claim to far away places). Maybe there should be several tiers of siege camps, each coming with a bigger claim, so that you'd need to match the tier of the defender's towers to just build the damn thing without getting shot to pieces.

Building it adjacent to enemy's village claim isn't just to prevent hiding them while the siege weapons dry. I imagine them as a means to take over enemy villages. Basically, you could capture adjacent enemy flags to make their claim part of the camp's claim (the defender's claim takes priority where flags overlap). Capturing shouldn't take more than standing still next to the flag for a bit, naturally you'd have to eliminate nearby defensive structures to do this without getting shot to death. Anyway, capturing the flags one by one, you could work your way up to the idol. Once all flags in the idol's 101x101 claim are captured, the idol itself can be captured to take over the whole village. There's the issue of people making gaps in their village claim to avoid this, I guess we can have some special siege flags to expand the camp claim at will without expanding the actual village claim.

[Sitting_Bill]

That sounds fun. As long as any changes don't totally screw over smaller villages in favour of megacities, I'm fine with it. I would say other changes have to be implemented as well, if authority is going to play a big part in siege warfare. Mind you as I'm not party to you guys' discussions I'm sure you have discussed things hundreds of times

[NaoWhut]

Oh, that's very simple, you should just remove the silly restrict "brickwalls could not be bashed barehanded". Atm only you and NNN are able to build char with 5k strength.

LOL oh wow xD

-stops reading- and i thought this kid
actually knew what he's talking about
for a moment...