Jordan Clark + Jiochan Downed by Mcfighter

[NaoWhut]

First of all, it partially ignores combat stats allows farmers an option to take down seasoned warriors.

I have a problem with that statement... because

q100 sword
400 strength
full martial

Not exactly a farmer...

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

I was more referring to stat wise rather than actual profession (and don't get me started with farmers with farming tools that can be used as a weapon such as a kama and grain thresher).

[DDDsDD999]

Oh god I lol'd so hard.

[bmjclark]

If by pocket fighters u mean alts, then Jiochan has 2 chars to fall back on, plus his main. I have 1 asides for my main which i'm going to continue to use since full trad

Ainran has battle alts, confirmed.

Yup, old chars from people at the start of the world . At least they aren't created in an alt factory from botted troll skulls, botted foragables and botted farms tho, like every character you've ever left the walls with (or played for that matter)

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

botted troll skulls

How can troll skulls be botted?

[bmjclark]

botted troll skulls

Err what?

They bot mining 24/7 for troll skulls.

[burgingham]

Movement combat requires actual "skill"

This is the most central misconception of them all. It does not require any skills and anyone that wants to make you believe it is lying. Well, not so much lying as telling the famous "bullshit". I am not sure how many of you know the actual meaning of the word as it was invented by a philosopher called Frankfurt (for the US citizens this might be unnecessary, they probably know him). Bullshit means telling a lie while the one telling it him- or herself believes in it.

It is how many misconceptions started to roam the world and in the end often even form societal phenomena we view as normal. Smoking being cool would probably be one example. Took a long time to change that conception.

Skill would actually mean that some brainwork in terms of using ones intelligence was involved. Movement combat is simply a game of fast reactions though. I do not consider those to be (any valuable) skill. There are plenty of other and better games out there which make it their central gaming aspect to require you click as fast as possible. HnH was never meant to be one of them.

As I have stated before Jorb himself told me that the HnH combat system is meant to be a rock/paper/scissor game. Time is of no meaning to him! That is something he simply did not eliminate and thus players started to abuse it. In his mind he had trading card games where in current metagames there is usually a rock/paper/scissor equilibrium too. Those games leave you with time to think about your decisions and then carefully make the best one.

Stats as the final subject would be something like the deck of cards you are playing then. Of course the guy who invested time and money in getting the uber-rare cards has better chances of winning in the end. Does not mean that a fine-tuned deck with a good pilot cannot beat the dumb, rich kid. There you have your skill too then.*


*Another form of skill would be influencing the current equilibrium and building a new and bigger rock or scissor. I do not say Ainran wouldn't be the best at this too so you guys might still have some kind of tactical advantage, if you used this part of the system right. In fact you already do, because it is somewhat working right now. Not to the extent Jorb wishes it to be, but still.

[Valten21]

Dunno Burg movement combat is way more then just hitting someone moving.

first incarnations of it in pandemonium were kiting coins to use opportuntiy knocks on people un-expecting of it. The idea was simple... no one uses anything other then flex punch, and oppknocks/sting is far superior then flex punch, so if we kite the person around using same speed run speeds untill we have enough coins to do that, then we can kill the person?! Movement combat is about being able to adapt to all your situations and use the best moves at the right time. It really opened up a lot of moves that otherwise can't be used in "standing - still " combat, like consume the flames, evil eye, battle cry, sting like a bee, and previously mentioned opportunity knocks.

In it's first forms oppknocks combos would work because not a person thought of doing it, they would just call down at best 6 coins back and try and flex punch us. People obviously caught on though, so we started agumenting our strategy until we had a hand full of ways to go about it and even founded ways to counter the original strategy (evil eye). Lots of skill involved, using the right moves in the right situations is what it's all about.

In the end stats still give you an advantage, trying to opp knocks someone down but they are doing it back with higher agility and higher delta combat meditiation means they are going to kill you first.

[burgingham]

Well, ok maybe in some movement combat there is brainwork involved as in you have to come up with it first. Then it is pure click performance though.

Also, the central part of what I wrote is how Jorb intended the combat system to be. That has nothing to do with timing, reaction skills or the like. Just with having the better strategy. So movement combat is entirely unintended and my unit of measurement in games is usually if the devs intended a certain behavior to be possible or not. Because if not then I personally would call it an exploit.

(Others might argue along something like: If they leave it in game and it is possible then I am allowed to do it. I find that questionable though. Would those people argue the same with usually not enforced laws? Are they allowed to be broken?)

[Valten21]

Unfortunately the system is trumped by charge/oakstance and flex/slide being the only moves that are relevant. You get a bit of leeway using moves like oppknocks or NPNG on people who using Death Or glory and Charge a little to much but if they are cautious about keeping their defence up on the way to 6 coins it's just going to come down to flex/punch again.

and more on the NPNG/oppknocks it's a moot point as well because no one uses MC characters anymore you are bound to hit a 0 and have 0 coins left. Flex Punch wins all.