Jordan Clark + Jiochan Downed by Mcfighter

[Valten21]

As great as the conversation is going lets not forget useless combat moves and ways they can be changed was brought up a few times before in the critiques and ideas, by the likes of DDD's, and Potjeh I believe? For the time being it always comes back to that.

[bmjclark]

Not that I want to get back to instanced combat, but I remember people making suggestions about sieges being kinda like a gme within the game. Jorb and Loftar however seem to be aiming for in depth tower defense systems rather. Salem is a first step in that direction with the braziers and whatnot. I think that holds promise, but attackers as well as defenders have to get plenty of toys and options to play around with to make that a fun experience. Then it can maybe replace the small scale combat system alltogether.

As much as i like the braziers and stuff, it still raises issues that i really don't like the idea that you can just wake up and have your character be gone and your infrastructure destroyed because someone raided you in the night. Honestly i kind of wish there was some kind of declaration that you're going to attack someone, and then 24 hours later you can start destroying their walls and of course deal with the towers and whatever other forms of defense are put in. Just so they can prepare, and try to stop you from destroying their town. It does for sure seem better then what we have now though.

I like the smaller scale fighting system, i like the interesting positioning that could come if movement combat is changed/removed. For instance, 4 Melee players standing around an archer while he shoots people, 2 people funneling 5 into a tunnel in a mine to make things more even. Just stuff like that always seems interesting when your controlling your own character in real time. But i guess we can agree to disagree on that whole thing

[jordancoles]

@BMJ

Agreed that the siege system is a big part of the problem. I doubt anyone'd disagree here unless they are notorious vault abusers. Nontheless I would prefer a slower paced combat system.

Another thing that I only mentioned on the side is that this kind of combat does not really seem to be made for armies fighting against eachother except for 2 (?) moves. I think that is what it should be aiming for though and then we might have to get a merged combat and siege system in many aspects. So the discussions become one at that point if one agrees with such assumptions.

Not that I want to get back to instanced combat, but I remember people making suggestions about sieges being kinda like a gme within the game. Jorb and Loftar however seem to be aiming for in depth tower defense systems rather. Salem is a first step in that direction with the braziers and whatnot. I think that holds promise, but attackers as well as defenders have to get plenty of toys and options to play around with to make that a fun experience. Then it can maybe replace the small scale combat system alltogether.

For the issue of turns taking too long, of course one could simply put in a turn limit here. As much as I don't want combat to be decided by who can click a split second faster, I also dislike waiting for 5 minutes for my opponent to make a move.

In response to the tower defense thing, if a cap were put onto character stats, or if character ability in itself was limited to a more medieval style of combat where moves are more spread out but there's more to lose/gain from each turn then it would put more emphasis on the idea of an actual kingdom. The kingdom walls/structure in itself is your strength in a way. If everyone is on an even playing field then building adds the extra edge to it. The idea of one person being able to level a whole village of people just isn't very realistic at all. I wouldn't mind seeing the offensive and defensive weights shifted more towards actual structures instead of in the people themselves. The game as it is atm is heavily pvp based, I'd rather centre it around the building aspect so that the feeling of building something up is more meaningful. When I first started playing I always saw PVP as an option in the game but it wasn't the be all and end all of hnh, it was something that was done when needed.

Another thing that would make more sense to me is being hit from behind to 0 our defense instead of just any movement at all...
Double clicking a portrait by accident so that you run right into a sting without a moved qued is not good combat. Getting out of your boat and being stabbed (I guess in the head?) is also not good combat.
I can at least understand that if a person had their back to you and is running when you stab them it would make a little more sense.

[Shiro_kun]

>Alex has gotten one troll in like 3 months
But let's avoid this conversation I'd rather have kambert talk

Should i find screenshot of like 2+~ unbutchered trolls at Dis idol?

[jordancoles]

>Alex has gotten one troll in like 3 months
But let's avoid this conversation I'd rather have kambert talk

Should i find screenshot of like 2+~ unbutchered trolls at Dis idol?

[burgingham]

I like the smaller scale fighting system, i like the interesting positioning that could come if movement combat is changed/removed. For instance, 4 Melee players standing around an archer while he shoots people, 2 people funneling 5 into a tunnel in a mine to make things more even. Just stuff like that always seems interesting when your controlling your own character in real time. But i guess we can agree to disagree on that whole thing

I am not saying I want to go away from controlling one character at a time and making that one character matter. I love that about HnH. I just see that a fixed HnH could attract bigger numbers of players again and with the necessary game mechanics in place that might encourage larger factions and larger faction struggles. Small fights can be just as interesting. The problem I see now is that those small fights basically shape the entire political landscape and that is what I dislike. I think my whole highwaymen and kingdom example shows what I would like to have in game quite well I don't even think you guys would disagree to play in such a manner? Being a constant thorn in the larger factions feet, but not being a real political factor. Maybe I am wrong there though.

As much as i like the braziers and stuff, it still raises issues that i really don't like the idea that you can just wake up and have your character be gone and your infrastructure destroyed because someone raided you in the night. Honestly i kind of wish there was some kind of declaration that you're going to attack someone, and then 24 hours later you can start destroying their walls and of course deal with the towers and whatever other forms of defense are put in. Just so they can prepare, and try to stop you from destroying their town. It does for sure seem better then what we have now though.

I guess systems of declaration of sieges or siege systems in general always will have problems with such factors as online times (if factions were big enough this would solve itself too probably btw). A declaration of war I like, nontheless it might be at a time where people cannot play etc. So a combined system of in depth tower defense and a declaration seems best to me. If I got Jorb right he is thinking in terms of large cities having multiple layers of walls btw so it might very well be that sieges take forever. That you kinda can build a temporary camp once you have sucessfully taken down the first layer, then move on to the next layer the next day. Having defensive structures of your own. There is a lot of potential in that.

The idea of one person being able to level a whole village of people just isn't very realistic at all. I wouldn't mind seeing the offensive and defensive weights shifted more towards actual structures instead of in the people themselves. The game as it is atm is heavily pvp based, I'd rather centre it around the building aspect so that the feeling of building something up is more meaningful. When I first started playing I always saw PVP as an option in the game but it wasn't the be all and end all of hnh, it was something that was done when needed.

Amen.

Also raises a topic Avu has spoken of a lot of times. The process of destruction needs to be slowed down tremendously. Being able to smash months of work within an hour is a horrible game mechanic no matter if it is nearly impossible to get inside a town in the first place. I suggested things like all structures being invulnerable unless you use a ram and stuff like that before.

Better stop before I write a novel on hnh

[bmjclark]

I guess systems of declaration of sieges or siege systems in general always will have problems with such factors as online times (if factions were big enough this would solve itself too probably btw). A declaration of war I like, nontheless it might be at a time where people cannot play etc. So a combined system of in depth tower defense and a declaration seems best to me. If I got Jorb right he is thinking in terms of large cities having multiple layers of walls btw so it might very well be that sieges take forever. That you kinda can build a temporary camp once you have sucessfully taken down the first layer, then move on to the next layer the next day. Having defensive structures of your own. There is a lot of potential in that.

Part of the reason i'd like to see something of a warning before your walls are torn down is because as much as hermits aren't supposed to be powerhouses or anything, i think it's a little harsh to have their work all crushed while they're offline and they won't even know what happened. Having factions is all fine and good, but if hermits don't have at least some warning to at least get their defenses ready, there won't be any hermits left. I mean, just look at the population drop on this world. There's obviously lag, and the fact that the world is nearing a year old so people have given up on catching up and stuff like that. But honestly, i think most hermits who are palibashed in the night probably just flat out quit. It really just can't be fun to wake up and find your stuff all gone or destroyed. Considering everybody and their mother can palibash at this point, it's next to impossible to get into the game. Note that i'm not saying i'm innocent of breaking into palisades. It takes nao like 5 minutes to break a palisade and we could completely destroy everything a hermit has accomplished in another 10 minutes, if that. I think that salem does a decent job of combating that kind of thing with the black bile drain, but on the other hand, the crime debuff is just a shitty shitty mechanic imo.

On the other hand, i think city sieges taking days or even a week or 2 if it's a big city would be great. If what you described with the temporary camps goes through, it almost sounds like an actual working version of bubbling a ram off the first wall you ram (obviously in a less clunky, and more fair way). Honestly, as long as sieging a town doesn't feel like an uphill battle against alts, statues and clunky ram mechanics then i'm happy with almost anything they do.

[burgingham]

This hermit topic is probably one hard to solve in accordance with making sieges more viable. It is one of the internal paradoxes oh HnH and I am not really sure how to solve them conclusively.

I agree with you though especially since I have played this world a few weeks as a hermit behind a palisade only. I got bashed by Dis 4 times in 2 weeks. Just so they could snack my pies on their way to an actual siege. Makes you feel pretty helpless. If they had griefed my other stuff too I would have flat out quit after the first time.

[jordancoles]

This hermit topic is probably one hard to solve in accordance with making sieges more viable. It is one of the internal paradoxes oh HnH I am not really sure how to solve them conclusively.

I agree with you though especially since I have played this world a few weeks as a hermit behind a palisade only. I got bashed by Dis 4 times in 2 weeks. Just so they could snack my pies on their way to an actual siege. Makes you feel pretty helpless. If they had griefed my other stuff too I would have flat out quit after the first time.

I made a hermit also and I've found it's best to just keep as low profile as you can, not many crops, no metal objects outside, etc

[AAlex]

>Alex has gotten one troll in like 3 months
But let's avoid this conversation I'd rather have kambert talk

Should i find screenshot of like 2+~ unbutchered trolls at Dis idol?

Lol, That was edited in paint and posted in Alliance chat, I posted it along with a few other trolling pictures and info, Mostly just to piss you guys off as I knew you were getting fed info

But in all fairness the best I got was 3 trolls in one day, strangely I got them all within an hour of each other. All Jorb needs to do is nerf troll skull LP (currently 2+mil), and I totally agree with this, I personally think 1mil LP is more then enough from a skull, Pretty sure I gain over 1mil in 2 days on basic foraged and crafted curios with my rings, hq pearly and tea buff anyway...

Pretty sure Jorb nerfed troll spawn a few months ago anyway, As Coles said, I've had bugger all for 3 months

Anyway... Continue your discussion I'm having fun reading actual content and good idea's, rather then the moronic baffle most of you retards spew.