Brodgar!

[ramoness]

More people, few hunters needed for that leather and thats basically it to bring up palisade which will prevent any fast attacks. More people, less time needed for it if good organisation.

[KajetanChrumps]

A good wall from the beginning is essential. Brodgar sucked so much without a wall.
Make a place for spawning new chars outside the wall, and let in newbies only if the hang around for a while.
Knowing Brodgar I can see it will be not possible to have a rabbit dried without having it stolen in a first few days, so again first protection then help.
At later stage make outside a stand with really cheap and low curios so the fresh chars could get a straw doll or a bark boat for a few blueberries or even taproots.
Capitalism seems a bad idea too. What's the point of having 4 or so mines if one would do ? So a successful village needs a public mine, even if people mine on their own behalf.

Basically you need a team of veterans for a few first days to get the village estabilished and then you can start giving out HS to newbies and let veterans do their own business.

[Yolan]

People are going to make their own mine holes in any case, but a mine hole near the idol is a nice idea. Make no mistake though, I will only make a wall if its spiral and can be expanded to accommodate a very loose restriction on immigration. Private plots will not be superseded, as town walls will only serve to reduce raids, not separate known trustworthy players from outsiders. My ideal is that a noob can set up in an area that had no village auth yet, then after sticking around a while, gets authed and eventually incorporated into the expanding spiral wall.

Let me be clear, if people want a normal village with shared curios etc etc, and strongly controlled immigration, and no personal plots, don't come to Brodgar. Or make your own Brodgar and ill call my place Minus Tirith. I absolutely won't negotiate about this.

[Yolan]

I'm not sure why, but my main character which I have spent many dozens of hours playing with in Brodgar has never once been killed or even agroed. I even miss the death orgy! Some kind of luck...

[KajetanChrumps]

I was talking about shared facilities rather than about shared curios. That is primarily a mine but also a mid q kiln, a smelter and a few owens. Low q seed supply is also good to have. I don't think anyone is going to share curios exept maybe shitty ones. And even if someone does, it's his choice.
I remember having a fresh alt in Brodgar and running the street for anything better than cone cow or a fly and there was no one capable and willing to provide anything - and I didn't want it for free. So I see here an opportunity for making a small trade like: a strawdoll/stalagoom/ladys mantle/whatever crap for bringing a couple of logs or wood blocks. That would pay for wood for a public minehole(s). The same could go for clay/bricks - village needs mats for a wall and advanced players can this way direct effort to get wall quickly.

As for the wall - do not bother making it spiral - it shall be a pallisade first. When village grows, materials for a new initial cornerpost will not be a problem. Also any unsealed cornerpost will soon find it's griefer. And I think onion design is better.
Also I see many people stop playing so probably the idea of houses for rent could work. There will be an issue with keys though.

[thesleeper]

Indoril Nerevar rules only

[Yolan]

I was talking about shared facilities rather than about shared curios. That is primarily a mine but also a mid q kiln, a smelter and a few owens. Low q seed supply is also good to have. I don't think anyone is going to share curios exept maybe shitty ones. And even if someone does, it's his choice.

I agree that a few basic facilities for people to use would be nice to have in the central area.

As for the wall - do not bother making it spiral - it shall be a pallisade first. When village grows, materials for a new initial cornerpost will not be a problem. Also any unsealed cornerpost will soon find it's griefer. And I think onion design is better.

You say that an onion style is good, but that essentially is what a spiral design is. With the added benefit that you never have to make a whole giant ring at once, but can do it in segments of a ring. Once you are several rings out this is very important because we are talking about large amounts of land. It's not just the corner posts that are an issue here. Also, why are you talking about unsealed cornerposts? Nobody will be leaving any of those lying around, and it's certainly not required by the design.

[KajetanChrumps]

You reduce number of choices when you decide to make spiral wall. It will soon hit some ridge or a river. Onion design, if taken not too strictly will adapt to terrain features. How are you going to design roads with this architecture ? A spiral also ?

If you want to continue your wall you have to keep one end unsealed, being cornerpost or not. That a point for a griefer to build his own wall, much to your surprise. The deterrent from doing that is they would have to bring in their own resources.

The most problematic issue of Brodgar was not protecting idol area. To deal with it you do not need to protect everything, just the idol and shared facilities and maybe a few settlements which will take part in the building efort. Since each plot could have it's own wall people could take care of themselves. If they want more protection they can decide to build a new wall.

The place where new chars spawn should be not walled-in and should include place for barterstands. It has to be claimed to allow removal of unused fires and override vclaim. It is easy if the claim is linked to the public HS.
Maybe there should be two such areas one active, the other not active to allow regular cleanup.

[Yolan]

Thanks. I did not know that about cornerposts.

Making walls in sections like you describe might be the only option then. Actually though, the picture you drew is quite similar (almost identical) to what we did with World's End, the W3 Brodgar #2. It kind of worked, but did end up stagnating quite a bit unfortunately, and I am a bit worried that this is what might be the cost of a wall. Thankfully the mining system is better than it was then, and we will be at the start of a world and not at the end of it. Also, World's End's location was not open to the public, and this one will be.

[KajetanChrumps]

I was trying to get to World's End in it's mid age but I rye didn't want me in so I had to find my own way in Hearthlands. It looks the flow of new citizens dried due to strict recruitment.
I think it is enough to make HS public to keep good inflow of newbies. Do not worry about the wall. It is bad only if you are on the wrong side of it.
Think about combinig 'Nople concept from W3 too. Having a local trade center would help to develop both village and characters.

About the mining system - a public minehole must be one-way to avoid being raided from below.