~Ainran Has Fallen~

[bmjclark]

I have 7 forage alts or so that i use actively, couldn't care less if one died tbh . Kinda takes the danger out of those bots.

[Mysia]

Let's be honest, bots are for casuals.

...If you afk they might get attacked and killed so its hella risky...

Disagree with this, pretty easy to recreate foragers .. especially with more bots. Also pretty sure I've seen butt naked chars running forage bot which is like 0 risk especially if trad

To be honest I dono how people play this game for the extent of the period they do play it without bots. Just doing the same repetitive tasks over and over just to get to the good stuff is insane. Maybe the first few months, maybe maybe a a year of continues farming / foraging. But after 2-3 years if your still doing the same tasks it astonishes me and confuses me that some people enjoy repeating the most rudimentary tasks like farming / lumbering / hunger grinding / silk making / foraging. Yes every single profession in hnh.

Well it's not always about enjoying what you're doing, it's about not being a bitch and grinding..

[Ilrede]

Bots are bad, but much worse are people, who say, that bots are ok and almost necessary for the game. Why ?

There is only one real currency in this game, time spended in front of computer. When we want achieve something in the game, we have to invest our real time. And everyone has the same long day, 24 hours. So usually people who are willing spend more time in game are "better". Of course knowledge of game mechanic is important factor too. But if someone use cheat (because bots are cheat), his playing time is much bigger than other and this is not right. Dont think so, that devs want the game will be played this way (with bots). If yes, they would be implement bots to the game as game mechanic.

Someone likes farming, hunting, mining or just do hard "boring" job like log harvesting and paving. Its hard to do all of this in one person. But this is MMO game, you are not alone here. Someone can do one thing, other another thing. And with cooperation is possible to do all. For me joint action is the best thing in the game. Even things like paving and log hauling are fun, when we are doing it in group, because we want to achieve something nice together. But why should someone pay for log hauling to hard working guy, when he can just start bot for free ?

I really dont understand, what people do in the game, if all job what is needed do bots. In most games path to finish is more important that finish alone. HnH probably doesnt have real finish (maybe except wipe), but still have nice path to "finish". Can people using bots tell me, what they want from the game ? Maybe better would be give it to them and they dont have to use bots at all. Will they be happy and satisfied ? Dont think so ... Its sad trend almost in all current MMO, that a lot of people want everything asap (like the best items). But most games are based on progress, where final reward are these items. Its basic idea of playing game. What people will do, if they would get all from start ?

I play this game as distraction from real world. I dont care that i am not the best, dont have all shiny etc. I just replant crops and i am happy that q is little highier. I go foraging out and i am happy, when i find something nice, like bluebell. I like talk with other people in village,do small trades and do any joint ation. If i would use bots for all of this (ok except talking with other people), why should i play this game ?

You can say, that why should i care about bots. Just play the game like before and have fun. But its not absolutely true. Not long time ago no one around care about bots much and no one from village mates use it. But its have changed. Boters are no hidden anymore, more and more people are asking about where to find bots and looks like others who dont want use bots are outsiders. My fun with cooperation (lime small trading and joint actions) with other people is no more, because why should they buy that, when bots can farm it. Or why they should make paving party and have fun, when they can just run bot for it. Its pretty sad ...

End of wall of text.

[Kaios]

To be honest I dono how people play this game for the extent of the period they do play it without bots. Just doing the same repetitive tasks over and over just to get to the good stuff is insane.

This part is easy, answer? They don't play! Take me for example, I absolutely love early game (First Phase and Second Phase as outlined in Ranma's thread) and there's no way I could imagine my self using any sort of bot or script to play during that time. However, time takes its toll, the grind begins, foraging becomes more of a chore than an adventure and my interest starts to fade...Personally I am against the use of such things like the foraging bot but what can you do? Xcom said it best with this statement:

Early world it was impossible to use bots cause nothing was even halfway stable for bots to be used. 1 minute you were out hunting and the next you were cutting woods. Other second it was organizing cubs. If hnh looked like that from day one and onwards bots wouldn't be needed. The game would be interesting on its own. But when game reaches the so called "grinding stage" I personally enjoy scripting.

[Tonkyhonk]

So she wouldnt be grumpy anymore.

Never

one of the very few occasions i agree with joco.

it really looks like this↓ is the case for many of you and you expect others to have your brain level.

right, boshaw?

--------

@xcom,
i do understand the part that your fun in your scripting challenges. you code something and make it work, yeah, it sure sounds rewarding. that is that.
but what i see from your post says the same mindset as ramones; "do anything to win this game (in ones own way)" and tries to justify yourself.
i was actually impressed how hard you SEEMED to have worked with your data collecting and maze and all, but i didnt know you botted hard till someone else told me and your projects lost all the charm for me. you probably did spend loads of time and efforts doing whatever needed for your project, but it seems like you just short-cut your way to the cheap fame (if it ever gets considered as fame). and it is your business and not mine to do so, but announcing that in public in such a blatant manner, encouraging others is another story. (<=this has been my point all the way.)
do you happen to assume devs actually approve of players botting? do you believe they made this game to welcome botters and theyre happy?

Just doing the same repetitive tasks over and over just to get to the good stuff is insane. Maybe the first few months, maybe maybe a a year of continues farming / foraging. But after 2-3 years if your still doing the same tasks it astonishes me and confuses me that some people enjoy repeating the most rudimentary tasks like farming / lumbering / hunger grinding / silk making / foraging. Yes every single profession in hnh.

this really amazed me, because your goal seems to be "just to get the good stuff" out of your gameplay.
botting is out of laziness? of course not, but it is about your greed that you have to have everything good to enjoy a game, a typical spoilt kid who cannot enjoy a thing when he cant have "everything" ready for himself. like Ilrede said above, it is about the process that is important for many of us who dont bot. we dont see this as a working simulator, although it can end up like that when we fail in some aspects. and then we dismiss village (or fall apart), restart or move, or just end up being meat for other players.
when it is about the virtual items you obtain from your gameplay or the final material achievement (like maze) that is only important for you, then no wonder why you find it insane.

how about you start coding your own new game called "script-quest", take all botters there and leave haven be? because basically,

honestly if jorb and loftar would have removed that aspect of the game from me I would quit the game in a heartbeat

check how salem is made and you can see how devs are struggling with the issues they see in haven. (i dont play salem now because my friends prefer haven due to the complexity and art of salem, and i cant play two similar games at the same time.)

and finally,

Remove all the bots and you will end up with a dead server.

i would rather play with my friends alone on a dead server than play with bots on a crowded server filled with them. i have zero interests in trading with botters or meeting botters in game.


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@Ilrede,
i dont particularly want to say "bots are bad", but the current trend is getting just as ridiculous as it can be, and it is only hurting this game and players horribly as of late, so yes, i agree with what you said in most parts.


@kaios,
you are cute sometimes, but you can be really gay sometimes too.

[Xcom]

@Tonkyhonk

From what I gather is that you rather people leave the game when they reach that stage of the game where they have a choice of botting or quitting to choose to leave. In all honesty botting is not the same as cheating unless you found a game breaking exploit. The process of making a stable script, use it to collect resources and achieve a whole new level of gameplay is rewarding on another level. Of course people that fall behind when they don't have access to the same tools complain. Thats when name calling starts, cheaters, botters or some other name for it.

I would have as you say quit haven about 4 months after playing haven if I didn't go into scripting. I had basically built a 300x300 BW base. Done just about everything in it from animals, hunting, mining and so on. Only thing I didn't do was pvp but in haven I just don't like to pvp much. It was about 5-6 months into the game when I was introduced to scripting and from that point onwards I managed to automate small aspects of the game that was game breakingly hard to maintain. Farming and tending to animals in a solo base was a pain. Just about anyone I know would have quit but I stubbornly stuck to it. After a while I managed to tediously teach myself java so I could make more and more advanced scripts. The maze was about the pinnacle of all that collective scripting coming together and I did openly admit it in the videos if you didn't know. The amount of resources needed to build it was astronomical and I can admit that if I had to dig 150k bricks by hand I wouldn't have been able to build it no. In W6 nodes depleted fast and clay gathering was crazy difficult. On top of that over 3k wrought. Sure you can say that botting it was cheep but try mining even 500 WI by hand and and we can talk.

Bots might sound like evil tools from Satan come down to plague your gaming experience, but thats just your opinion of the matter. I thought of bots as evil game breaking tools as well till I got into it. I then realized that anything that requires bots to maintain should be restructured in a game so it breaks the monotony and creates risk and reward. Every time a gamer have to revert to botting it means the game is broken and not the fault of the player. If you want to call it cheating its cause you think that reward should come from hard labor. But if you really have to put value in doing 10 hours of absolute boring work into the game and get a 10 min thrill from the end result your really not playing a game anymore.

Just to round it all up from my point of view. You rather have people play the click fest in haven till the end of it and quit when the get sick of it. But I rather enjoy the game in all forms weather its botted or done manually. The only problem is if one would get into the botting to early and break the gaming experience rather then go through all the labors then revert to botting when the click fest got to a point it broke the game rather then bring enjoyment.

[ramones]

@Tonky, there is no way you can know who is a botter or who is not when you trade with them, neither with what goods are botted or which are not, except if you know the person you are trading with. I trade with too much people to even remotedly care if goods are stolen/boted/foraged, a flotsam is a flotsam it has same market value if stolen, boted or brought out off an ass. If you hate bots so much and mention it in every line you write, why don't you suck up to the devs even more and convince them to do something about it?

[Tonkyhonk]

In all honesty botting is not the same as cheating unless you found a game breaking exploit. The process of making a stable script, use it to collect resources and achieve a whole new level of gameplay is rewarding on another level. Of course people that fall behind when they don't have access to the same tools complain. Thats when name calling starts, cheaters, botters or some other name for it.

no, xcom, you completely missed my point. you have the same brain lvl of ramones, as you assume i complain cause i have no access to those scripts. its just you looking yourself in a mirror. i guess you probably complained a lot before when you couldnt code.

what you seek from this game is the material achievements while ours is not. all that matters to you is the result of botting, what matters to us is the process of playing and never about "to bot or not to bot".
script itself is not necessarily evil, but you are evil as you advertise new players to bot, to encourage botting, as we lose more players but gain botters.


@ramones,
you know i ask them to ban botters and abusers occasionally. you should also know its impossible to do something about botting since you have played lots of different games and you sure know the devs here. the last several players loftar ip banned that i know were the botters, not because they were botting but because they were causing some huge packet problems, and he said he didnt feel sorry to ban them since they were botting. as you should remember how it went with RMT, i may be able to see the day when devs decide to say something about it.
also, to distinguish who bot and who dont, i just simply ask them directly. and you never seem to understand my problem, anyways.

p.s.
i dont have to suck up to devs to talk to them. dont think anyone has to. maybe you feel you have to because your friends do so.

[Thijssnl]

Must be your time of the month if you feel the need to continously insult the people still trying (lol) to have a decent discussion with you and then cry people dont understand your problems.
"I'm right, you're evil, you're dumb, you're a dick, plz listen to my problems Q_Q".

Figured you for a knowledgeable person before but you're just whining now saying nothing new for aaaaages, second to make it to my ignore list in all the time I've played, gj!
I do not like the state of the game with botting at the moment but I dont point a finger at botters and hope they will stop botting because I wish them to, somewhat naive (using mild terms here) imho.

[Tonkyhonk]

again, im not asking them to stop botting, but im asking them to stop encouraging botting.

now that you found out that i disrespected you from the start and i dont reply back to all your pms, you had to try and offend me?
visible offenses cant really offend me, just for your information.