~Ainran Has Fallen~

[ramones]

You are constantly throwing negative words out to many people, while your opinion is the most important one

They banned people cause they were messing with the server and so it should be. And I agree, they can do anything they want, its their game.

And about the RMT, you are bringing up problems from your head in every 10th line you write, not even being connected to any subject being discussed. You seriously have a problem. Maybe you should be the one to just quit HnH and let people enjoy it in the way they do.

PS: I don't want to discuss anything with devs that ignore some good suggestions for the game and do pathetic things to other aspects/fixes. I just enjoy playing, gave up on them long time ago. And I don't know which friends you mean, I have alot of friends and its their thing how they are related to devs, not mine.

[Thijssnl]

@ Tonkyhonk

We had a conversation where you didnt reply to me asking how it is I offended you in the first place, feel free to twist this as you see fit (not responding to the last not AAAALL my pms ).

I'm simply stating my opinion on your behavior picking fights and insulting people who you discuss with, if you feel this was a serious attempt to offend you I have to disappoint you here (what can offend you then, invisible offenses? )
Oh man I wont be able to sleep tonight knowing you of all people in the world disrespected me from the start for to me unknown reasons..
Please read your posts here and rethink if you have a reason to insult fellow players who happen to have another opinion.
This was my last post to you, au revoir <3

@ramones
Doesnt matter if you point it out to her SHE IS RIGHT. Dammit ramones understand it already

[ramones]

@ramones
Doesnt matter if you point it out to her SHE IS RIGHT. Dammit ramones understand it already

Always when I have discussion with her I end up saying that, how did you know

[Thijssnl]

@ramones
Doesnt matter if you point it out to her SHE IS RIGHT. Dammit ramones understand it already

Always when I have discussion with her I end up saying that, how did you know

Ask Tonky I'm sure she has the right answer bwahaha xD

[_Gunnar]

Personally I don't care if people use bots for farming, mining, etc, if they don't use the gain from that to harm other people. But lets face it, for a lot of people it just leaves more time for pvp (read: killing newbs) - in which case it does harm others.

(Personally, I thought the maze was very impressive and I don't mind at all that it was constructed with bots, simply because it had no offensive purpose.)

However, intensive forage botting directly denies other people resources, usually less advanced players, and I don't understand why noone here seems to realise that it is not the same as the other bots at all for that reason. Or they do realise and either don't care at all if it affects other people, or secretly do disagree with it but cannot possibly say something to offend those using it for whatever reason.

And I do wish that people would not assume that those who don't use bots are not doing so because we don't "have access". I'm sure I could write bots to do nearly everything in this game but I'd rather code while working irl and just roleplay my nice mc/stealth character while PLAYING this game, rather than run N clients pumping out as many curios/foods as possible to make him "competitive".

I have confidence that when haven 2.0 arrives there will be much less necessity to bot because character progression will hopefully be totally different. The reason it is prevalent in this game is that having MORE stuff always makes you better (obviously there is a high upper limit with curios, but not with food), especially with the new combat. Some sort of combat caps similar to archery would probably help with this, and J&L's goal of making the game more "playful" also will hopefully reduce the desire to massively automate every task. I completely agree that farming is ridiculous and I was saying so before Salem came out, and hoping it would be better there - its not, in my opinion, but they are clearly aware of the problem with it in haven. Monotonous tasks like lumber and bricks are most likely intended to require teamwork and cooperation rather than botting, but in the current implementation its left wide open to bots.

There are plenty of ways to improve on many of the game systems, but I can't really object to people using bots for stuff like this when it doesn't necessarily harm anyone else. But when river pearl mussels seem virtually extinct along some routes because of someone leaving scripts running while they watch porn that is a totally different matter.

[Tonkyhonk]

yeeeeshhhh, my opinion is always the most important and right one, correct?
remember that im not saying that but you are saying that.

PS: I don't want to discuss anything with devs that ignore some good suggestions for the game and do pathetic things to other aspects/fixes. I just enjoy playing, gave up on them long time ago. And I don't know which friends you mean, I have alot of friends and its their thing how they are related to devs, not mine.

cause they didnt approve you of rmting and your cunning rmt suggestions? lol
so, where did this "suck it up to devs" come from when none of your friends say they do? 80-90% ppl or whole world you trade with say that, or you believe they dont talk to you because you dont suck it up to them? arent you talking from your own experiences?

[ramones]

RMT is only your problem. Next reply, yet again you are stucking with it while not knowing anything about me and things about it. Give it up already. They have nothing to do with any of this discussion.

And you have no idea what I'm talking about when mentioning devs, so you don't need to know it. You are no one in HnH yet you know every thing about every village about every player, right? Right.

I believe you have no idea what you are talking about saying things about "sucking up". When you get my point, feel free to reply again. And don't mix up me or whatever friends you made up along the way when I'm talking about you and your actions. Those things are not connected or will ever be.

[Xcom]

@Gunnar

I think I agree with you in parts but not fully. Most purl botters don't forage bot whole river systems rather then a specific high quality fish node or lake. Mostly cause its more efficient or gives better quality. I don't think you as a average player would be given the access to these nodes if its high Q as higher level players might want to keep a competitive edge holding on to these nodes anyways.

Mussles have a 20 minute respawn timer anyhow so you can damage the resource gathering of any faction by parking your alt in that area and keep the area force loaded. That would reduce the production of mussles in that area for both partys so you can combat them using this technique. Although it would be a form of indirect combat it wont benefit any party. I can honestly say that no human being can forage bot 24 hours a day 365 days a year. You would need a dedicated server to keep foraging nonstop endlessly if that was the case. You might notice that botters might show up and auto forage for them for maybe 2-3 days then disapear for a few days. That would give anyone in that area the opportunity to forage between the gaps as they stockpiled a good number of curios. But if picked by hand those same forage grounds would be patrolled daily.

But this discussion is completely mute cause noone in there right mind would forage faction foraging grounds even if said faction wouldn't use forager bots. The risk of bumping into someone and have your ass handed to you would be reason enough to forage anywhere else. The world is big enough, 49 super grids and 500 players giving an average of 1 SG per 10 players. Thats roughly 1 mountain 1 swamp per person. Even if every single person in the world would suddenly have the urge to forage at the exact same time there would be enough room.

The other argument about giving bot foragers a competitive edge in LP income. Well I can tell you right now that foraging bots cant make as much curios as a trader or dedicated organized group of people. It might give them more bluebells or edels but bells aren't the only way to pump LP and curios aren't the only way to gain a competitive edge in pvp or any other area in haven. W6 a group of 200UA toons and some average gear could kick the ass of any titan character but with the combat changes it might favor towards the LP grinders bit more and as said before combat changes was completely in the wrong direction W7.

The only people in this game that should complain about how bots ruin the game are the traders. The amount of purls getting botted or resources deflated in value. But it seams its quite the opposite as traders like ramones have found new ways to earn income and adapted. In a game like EvE online where the player market is heavily affected by botting it would be a reasonable argument. But does haven even have a integrated player economy like eve? if so how exactly are these curios affecting the game?

Not a single thing have changed. PvPers are still going around kicking everyone balls in like never before and hermits are doing there small thing, mid range villagers are chilling in there pallys till they are pally bashed and factions are still doing there big fights from time to time. Botting haven't altered any core aspect of the game. Infact the biggest botting mechanic that was game breaking like the straight mining in W6 have been removed along with a few other exploits. Only thing that bots have added have been a bit of flavor to a heavily stagnated community that wants a bit of change.

@Tonkyhonk

Im a bit confused about what exactly it is your pointing towards. What exactly is it in botting that your pointing to and have a problem with? and why is it bad to advertise about bot usage?

But I can say this. Yes I do not like some of the monotonous systems in haven. So if I was given the choice of using the knowledge to improve my own status quo using bots, I would do it. But if I was given a forced choice to stop playing or keep doing it without bots I would quit.

[_Gunnar]

@Xcom

I know of several hq mussel nodes and the decrease in mussel quantity was extremely noticeable when they were discovered by "certain people", curiously enough thats when we started noticing forage bots around there.
I know several smaller groups who have noticed that their local areas rarely have animals, curios, etc, also coincident with the arrival of intensive forage bots. I'm perfectly aware of the game mechanics governing respawning, and so are those using these bots. Obviously I'm not going to say anything about who or where those people are.
Also, you seem to think that every player has the choice of where they forage. Not everyone has an extensive xr network. If a faction starts botting in their area is a small group of 1-2 people supposed to just be unable to play outside their walls? It seems like you are only looking at yourself and your friends and are unaware that there are in fact hundred of players who are not as privileged as you are to have a good network and good relations with everyone to keep your areas to yourself.
I don't know if you're aware but I was a trader in w5 and played with traders in w6, I'm not a new player any more. I am totally aware that you can make more curios trading than foraging, and I am not complaining about this because I need to forage myself or because i cannot find unforaged areas if i do feel like it. I'm fully aware of respawn times too... I'm arguing on behalf of people who maybe don't come to the forum and maybe don't feel like sticking their neck out.

To me this world seems far more stagnant than last world or w5. I don't think this is just due to the combat changes, and obviously it has got worse and worse since w5 probably, but now nearly noone in a faction goes out alone without backup on any sort of valuable character, they just play it safe and uses cheap foraging alts along botted routes, and roll around with groups of high-statted combat chars (either actually with them or at best a jump + quick boatride away) ganking newbs... To me the botting of foraging is a natural continuation and worsening of the stagnation that has happened in the past two worlds due (partly) to the easy creation of alts and the infinite demand for food and lp, not a solution to it.

[rye130]

I don't really get the point of this discussion. I'm pretty sure all of us who have been around for a while realize that bots are bad for the state of the game. That being said, we should also understand that if they are possible to be used, they will be because its advantageous to us them. The only change that can occur in regards to botting will have to be done by the development team because there is nothing the community can really do. Even if we declared a war on bots, and hunted down foraging bots to kill them, they are still ridiculously cheap to make (my one forager died to a boar last night, I replaced him in like an hour). We can sit and discuss how bots such because they ruin the game for others but its not going to change anything at the end of the day.

And I don't think jorbtar's effort should be aimed at preventing botting from occurring, instead it should be aimed at fixing some of the other stupid shit (*cough* animal bashing shit *cough*) unless they are willing to make serious changes to the system.