~Ainran Has Fallen~

[_Gunnar]

I don't really get the point of this discussion. I'm pretty sure all of us who have been around for a while realize that bots are bad for the state of the game. That being said, we should also understand that if they are possible to be used, they will be because its advantageous to us them. The only change that can occur in regards to botting will have to be done by the development team because there is nothing the community can really do. Even if we declared a war on bots, and hunted down foraging bots to kill them, they are still ridiculously cheap to make (my one forager died to a boar last night, I replaced him in like an hour). We can sit and discuss how bots such because they ruin the game for others but its not going to change anything at the end of the day.

if you can't beat them, join them? seems sad to me anyway
and there are a lot of newer players who have "grown up" in this environment who don't see any problem with botting since "lots of people do it"

And I don't think jorbtar's effort should be aimed at preventing botting from occurring, instead it should be aimed at fixing some of the other stupid shit (*cough* animal bashing shit *cough*) unless they are willing to make serious changes to the system.

I actually agree, animal bashing needs to be fixed asap since its impossible to play properly while that is going on. They are willing to make large changes (it seems) and I think loftar has been working pretty hard updating the code base in preparation...

[Tonkyhonk]

Im a bit confused about what exactly it is your pointing towards. What exactly is it in botting that your pointing to and have a problem with? and why is it bad to advertise about bot usage?

But I can say this. Yes I do not like some of the monotonous systems in haven. So if I was given the choice of using the knowledge to improve my own status quo using bots, I would do it. But if I was given a forced choice to stop playing or keep doing it without bots I would quit.

first of all, the game was not meant to be played by bots. and the current curio system was originally created to avoid bots in the first place (see the statue of w4, even though it did not go as devs expected and called for the current bot increase instead), that is, to remove/reduce the advantage gaps between botters and non-botters. also to discourage players for meaningless and boring actions only for gaining lp (e.g. bucket grinding).
devs here also tend to blame themselves and their own game system for making people want to bot and they have been struggling to do something about it. (and salem is one of their latest efforts which have not succeeded to earn much popularity from haven community so far.)

that being said, i do not like the current trend of players wanting to bot everything. not because of the advantage gaps since i do not enjoy quality race nor showing off e-peens, but because of the players interactions in game. i do not like to meet bots in game. i do not enjoy playing with bots. i do not like my villagers to be bots, either. (i enjoy watching players too.) and when i get murdered by a player who gained everything by botting up, it really sucks lol
forums lately are encouraging new players to bot as if botting was just normal in this game and as if it was approved by devs when it is not. and i hate it because such attitudes on forums would only drive away non-botters from this game for one reason or another and call in more botters, who are often "do anything to win" type of players.
im not asking you to suffer from this game, i just hate to lose any more players who can make tedious routines into joyous events and gain more botters instead due to this botting advertisement. (also, it really saddens me when a young teenager goes, "oh so you can bot in this game? great!" and jumps to bot threads and i cannot say no.)


@rye,
just because you find that the community can do nothing about it doesnt mean you should encourage it even further.

[rye130]

I don't really get the point of this discussion. I'm pretty sure all of us who have been around for a while realize that bots are bad for the state of the game. That being said, we should also understand that if they are possible to be used, they will be because its advantageous to us them. The only change that can occur in regards to botting will have to be done by the development team because there is nothing the community can really do. Even if we declared a war on bots, and hunted down foraging bots to kill them, they are still ridiculously cheap to make (my one forager died to a boar last night, I replaced him in like an hour). We can sit and discuss how bots such because they ruin the game for others but its not going to change anything at the end of the day.

if you can't beat them, join them? seems sad to me anyway
and there are a lot of newer players who have "grown up" in this environment who don't see any problem with botting since "lots of people do it"

The thing is you don't have to join them if being competitive stats and skills wise isn't your thing. As far as the quality grind thing goes, botting doesn't really help too much, bots are good at quality. As for the new players growing up in this environment, not sure what can really be done about that, but really up until this thread there wasn't really too much "promoting" of botting occurring anywhere.

Most of the encouragement of bots I see on the forums, tonky, have been because of the discussion you started in arguing with ramones and emerald in this thread.

[Tonkyhonk]

Most of the encouragement of bots I see on the forums, tonky, have been because of the discussion you started in arguing with ramones and emerald in this thread.

saying everyone bots encourages others to bot, with the same mindset; join them when you cant beat them.
or, we say, "cross the road with the red light on, youll be safe with everyone else."

[Xcom]

@ Gunnar

I don't understand how things would be different if these people didn't use bots. Do you mean to say that because they use bots they forage these grounds more? I think if anyone had a good Q forage route it would also be the same route you bot foraged. So how would things change if they manually foraged the same routes. Would you see less of them so you could forage in cause they never foraged there anymore? and what stops you from foraging these rivers when these players are not running there bots cause I doubt they can have a dedicated forage bot on that river system all the time or rather is it even a wise plan to forage on faction foraging routes in general?

In general I haven't seen anyone give any legitimate reason to why any specific bot is detrimental to the game in any form other then taking game play away from you in some form or another. I have been told to stop using bots in EC because people wanted to do these specific tasks I was planning to bot. I fully understood what it meant and even if the outcome would be far less superior to a dedicated bot output I agreed with the decision to not use bots and let people enjoy doing it by hand. In this specific instance I fully supported the decision and understood why it was bad using a bot.

But if people rant on the forums about how botting ruins haven in any form or another it should have a bit more structured reasoning other then. Bots are bad therefore they ruin the game and so anyone caught using it or dabbling in it should be sent to hell. When people in games like WoW or EVE talk about botting they indirectly talk about the player driven market system. Or in FPS games where aimbots ruin the whole point of the game. I think the stigma is carried over from other games and just slap the same discussion on top of haven without a second thought about if these bots really do affect anything other then a generalized negative opinion of the matter.

If you really think bots are bad do please give it a bit of thought and explain to the rest of us how they affect the game and how your gameplay is affected by it.

[rye130]

Most of the encouragement of bots I see on the forums, tonky, have been because of the discussion you started in arguing with ramones and emerald in this thread.

saying everyone bots encourages others to bot, with the same mindset; join them when you cant beat them.
or, we say, "cross the road with the red light on, youll be safe with everyone else."

And those things were said in this thread, in discussion with you. They would have lied dead, undiscussed if you hadn't kept continuing that conversation. Your cause isn't wrong but I don't understand what you expect us to do.

[Tonkyhonk]

And those things were said in this thread, in discussion with you. They would have lied dead, undiscussed if you hadn't kept continuing that conversation. Your cause isn't wrong but I don't understand what you expect us to do.

an issue will be discussed sooner or later. that is what the forums are for, right?
what ive been asking from the very start is to stop talking like everyone bots. or shut ramones up.

[Xcom]

Instead of being part of the problem head over to the Critique & Ideas part of the forum and give proper good suggestions on how to fix the game so its less bot provocative. Issue is that JnL reset the world without fixing the underlying problems. Suggestions like giving combat a cap, fixing cheese so its not overpowerd, going back to W6 combat, reducing the hourglass timers, fix farming and so on have all been suggested to death.

But as it stands non of the suggestions above have really sunk in in the minds of our devs so we are either left with the option to quit haven or bot the shit out of it. Do you really think people would forage bot if it was a fraction of what a manual forager would output for example? or if farming didn't require 2 hours of straight up clicking and animals needing 50 units of food / day.

I would do it cause I love scripting, just for the shits and giggles. But average Joe bot forager would stop using his scripts.

[aghmed]

yep there are 2 options to prevent botting:
-make it not needed
-ban players for it

about second.... well we see on big mmo example that it won't work

[jordancoles]

And those things were said in this thread, in discussion with you. They would have lied dead, undiscussed if you hadn't kept continuing that conversation. Your cause isn't wrong but I don't understand what you expect us to do.

an issue will be discussed sooner or later. that is what the forums are for, right?
what ive been asking from the very start is to stop talking like everyone bots. or shut ramones up.

The vast majority of competitive players use bots and client mods. Just because you can stick your head out of your mud hut on a daily basis without using bots does not mean that the statement is false.