~Ainran Has Fallen~

[Lordtimo]

I see.

What im trying to say is that i dont think farming bot isnt giving you an unfair advantage like foraging bots do, you can do the farming by hand just as effective as the bot does.

, but still this is the important part.

[Eemerald]

@Emerald: yeah I know that feeling, although maybe not as extreme. World 3 I was the last active person in my village, and I couldn't keep authority up and feed the animals both. Had to make some hard decisions, tear down a lot of banners and kill, sell, or release a lot of animals.
.

I did kill pretty much all my animals except 1 female and one male of each and some of the milk cows. but still...in the lag it was hard to keep to with them. was sad, but would have been sadder to let it all go!

[Eemerald]

I've deliberately kept out of this argument for the simple fact that neither side is going to change their opinion, for pages now you are all just going around in circles and in some cases have resorted to insulting each other.

I said earlier, pages back now, that I don't agree with botting for the same reasons as Anna, Tonky and LadyV but I fully understand why those that do bot do so. Like Gunner, I do think the foraging bot is slightly different as it does have more impact on other peoples game play but on the whole I think that botting takes away from the uniqueness of this game, spoils the point of play and naturaly gives an unfair advantage to those that use them.

However .....
That being said, those that do bot will disagree and continue to bot for whatever reasons, it's a pointless argument. I have nothing against players that bot, other than that I wish they wouldn't, it doesn't make me feel badly towards them or would prevent me trading with them, it's how they choose to play. I don't agree with going around raiding and murdering but I have friends in game who do, lol.

If you want to argue about it, shouldn't you really direct it at the devs for not doing more to prevent it rather than singling out certain people who do and making them a scapegoat? This whole 'debate' has centered around Em, her village and her villagers, even though the start of the thread was about Ainran - I found it painful to read tbh.

Yeah I only wanted to clear the point that tonky made, since it was inaccurate about my town, but ended up stuck in this debate...

[Amanda44]

^^ I know, I felt for you .......

[NOOBY93]

^^ I know, I felt for you .......

Wow, you reminded me of borka there.
Anyway, this thread is depressing, and all I can say is:
To the people who say "play your own way":
You can't play your own way without bots if your way is PvP.
Even if it's not PvP you'll get raided by botters one way or another.
Say, my way of playing is doing all I can do against and with people who don't bot.
If other people bot, that's not my way of playing.

[Tonkyhonk]

but if the advocacy and general consensus of botting is a bad thing, then shouldnt the game creators just stop allowing the modifiable unofficial clients to connect or ban them outright?

not trying to speak for the devs, but the below are the general consensus.
1. this game is a hobby for the devs and completely free and run by donations (and maybe their pocket money when not enough).
2. they have said that they are not willing to police around to ban players which would consume too much time and efforts. we all know how some other commercial mmos have been doing, and it is not realistic for a non-profit game.
3. loftar has said he would like to work on the content, and currently working on re-coding the whole game for haven 2.0, while also working on another game, salem. updating client is currently not their first priority, even though loftar did say he would work on it later.
4. the client is currently an open source, because custom clients will be around even if they dont make it open. jorb once said he also uses one of them instead of the default. they are not planning to adopt the currently released ones as their official one though.
5. they sometimes ban players or nuke players settlements or kill off characters for certain actions without warnings, but rather rare.

That being said, those that do bot will disagree and continue to bot for whatever reasons, it's a pointless argument.

it may look pointless to many of you, but it is not for me.
the most important thing here for me is to speak up and say that there are indeed players who do not bot, and some chimed in too.
im NOT here trying to change the pro-botters mind. like i said and will say it again, im saying there are decent numbers of players who do not bot. There was a hidden group of very competitive players stat-wise who never botted, but probably no-lifed. unfortunately they got nuked at one of the previous crashes and all the high q items and resources stocked were all gone over night.
fyi, i do interact with those who bot. i have friends who bot too. (i yelled at one of them yesterday about this actually)
but i do not ask or try to force them to stop botting, that is indeed pointless. i simply dont play village with them and tell them i dont bot.

If you want to argue about it, shouldn't you really direct it at the devs for not doing more to prevent it rather than singling out certain people who do and making them a scapegoat? This whole 'debate' has centered around Em, her village and her villagers, even though the start of the thread was about Ainran - I found it painful to read tbh.

sorry if i sounded like i was making a scapegoat. i was simply attacking ramones for his comments and the rest is to confirm the statements. (also i heard that emerald and her friends dont bot and the town is still run by bots, now cleared by xcom how it works.)
but one thing i wonder, why would it hurt them when they accept botting as a legit game-play like xcom does?

anyways, let me apologize you all for being too aggressive and making you feel bad, but sorry, this is me. nothing surprising.

as for directing it at the devs, ive been talking to loftar about it sometimes (not too easy to catch him), but the issue is "how".
what they might be able to do now is to change the system again, while he is recoding anyways, which may not benefit you all, as many of you didnt like salem, and remember all the QQs when curiosity came in. (i even suggested random bans, but he didnt nod lol)
what we have left now is some community effort, to change the current air of welcoming botters.
dont misunderstand, it is NOT to eliminate bots, NOR to kill bots when found, but to keep real players instead of a bots-filled server.
and quite honestly, i admit that i took the wrong steps to it out of my rage and i understand how some of you didnt like it.

oh and sorry to nao too, i didnt actually mean to ruin your thread, but i got really mad for some reason.

finally, to those who are talking about advantages, all bots give advantages, otherwise, who would make bots and use them...?

[Amanda44]

^^ I know, I felt for you .......

Wow, you reminded me of borka there.

In what way?
I hope you weren't trying to say I was being sarcastic ....... I meant that I felt for her in a caring way when her village was targeted, luckily Em knows me and knows what I meant.

[Amanda44]

That being said, those that do bot will disagree and continue to bot for whatever reasons, it's a pointless argument.

it may look pointless to many of you, but it is not for me.
the most important thing here for me is to speak up and say that there are indeed players who do not bot, and some chimed in too.
im NOT here trying to change the pro-botters mind. like i said and will say it again, im saying there are decent numbers of players who do not bot. There was a hidden group of very competitive players stat-wise who never botted, but probably no-lifed. unfortunately they got nuked at one of the previous crashes and all the high q items and resources stocked were all gone over night.
fyi, i do interact with those who bot. i have friends who bot too. (i yelled at one of them yesterday about this actually)
but i do not ask or try to force them to stop botting, that is indeed pointless. i simply dont play village with them and tell them i dont bot.

I agree that it is certainly important to remind all players that it is perfectly possible to play Haven without using bots and that in itself is not pointless.

After everything you were saying I was really surprised to hear you do interact with people who bot, that just shows how adamantly you were raging against them and those who use them.

Anyway, you have now shed more light on the subject, it's a good thing to feel passionate about something and i'm sure no-one will hold it against you.

[Eemerald]

edit: town isn't run by bots. it can be easily run by bots, but since the majority of us don't bot, and don't like to have jobs we actually enjoy botted it isn't then run by them.

[AnnaC]

This isn't world 6 anymore. Botting was obviously necessary then, as the lag made the game unplayable and exacerbated the interface issues which are one of the main grievances proponents of botting list. There was also an extremely low player population which prevented the delegation of tasks, and required more automation just to maintain baseline economic infrastructure. The game went for over a year as an abandonware game, where the old veterans had nothing new to do but grind quality and other e-peen metrics to best eachother. Botting was obviously a necessary evil to prop this game up during that time.

But this isn't world 6 anymore. Potential and development has returned, and the potential for the player population and game to grow and prosper once again. But that requires economic balance in the game, economic niches for a burgeoning playerbase to fill. Latter half of world 3, I made my way as a professional forager for the most part. World 5, I reached a development point where I couldn't afford the time to forage myself, so I set up a marketplace to sell my surplus food and crafted goods, for the foragables I needed. Of course this required a playerbase to fill these niches, which was present and was nice as it allowed economic interaction with other players in the game (the point of a mass-multiplayer gameworld). Also there was security issues with this, as theft and vandalism would occur on occasion, but that is another form of player interaction that is expected and needs to be dealt with. But this arrangement was long-term beneficial to me, and it was beneficial for the people who used it as well; and this was an in-game solution to economic and logistical issues I, and other players, had -- which is the point of an open-world survival game, overcoming these issues.

This economic balance and availibility of economic niches is a requirement for the game and player population to grow and develop, and mass automation from a small group of players undermines this in every way.

There is no good way to prevent botting, so I implore a lot of you botters, to limit your botting as much as possible, if you care at all for this game in the long-term.