~Ainran Has Fallen~

[rye130]

where do you draw the line?

I think it's fairly obvious

It all comes back to this.

[AnnaC]

I like how bots are bad for the game while just about everyone uses the Ender client.

Usage of Ender's doesn't automate economic niches in the gameworld that other players would otherwise be able to fill. Also using the benefits of Ender's still requires a player to be playing the game.

And yeah, I remember playing back when it was still possible to hide boats and crates behind trees to protect them from thieves, or how it felt to try to explore and navigate a cave with torchlight. Or how I'd be scared to walk through broadleaf forests because bears could hide behind the round-shrubed trees so much easier than the triangular pines. But I also remember suffering the many surprise maulings the lack of vision or hostility notifications still allowed me to survive and escape because it wasn't certain death.

Considering it takes several million LP to naturally survive a bear attack, having a simple notification or awareness of a hostile creature before it's mauling you (which could potentially result in death), is a perfectly fair trade-off. Similar with the player radar blips, although I really dislike that personally. These things should be built into the game more, with regards to Hearthling detection values, and stealth ratings. Like a bear has low to no stealth being a big fast animal, so they pop up and are more noticeable even by a new Hearthling with a detection level of 10; but say a high Stealth Hearthling shouldn't pop up on their minimap (or be drawn) until they are much closer.

Nightvision is total bullshit, although the game has always needed more sources of light; candle tools that don't require metal, and ways to make torches without linen cloths (also other structural textiles, like woolen cloth, to help offset the ridiculous demand for linen). Hide objects, I sort of covered that a little bit in the paragraph about stealth and detection. Yeah I don't like it so much (although I need it in thicket to have a framerate above slideshow), but without the ability to rotate a camera, the lack of an ability to see behind objects restricts what the game otherwise would provide to your hearthling because of poor interface mechanics (a meta-game issue).

Getting around bad interface issues is a legitimate and respectable method of botting. For example, putting up a construction sign and having a bot automatically transfer materials from your inventory; perfect for someone on a laptop without a scrollwheel.

I don't understand your post, really. Bashing people using a client that overcomes issues and grievences to the interface of the main game client is beneficial in the long run, as it allows the developers to see such issues, and it provides them with examples of alternatives they could use, should they develop new client releases in the future. Also by bashing the usage of the client for such reasons undermines those same arguments FOR botting, in this regard. And finally, the whole schoolyard logic of "its ok if I cheat because they cheated first!" is old and not really a great way to get your point across (although "u bagoused b4 us" is a time-honored Haven & Alt tradition!).

[rye130]

I like how bots are bad for the game while just about everyone uses the Ender client.

Usage of Ender's doesn't automate economic niches in the gameworld that other players would otherwise be able to fill. Also using the benefits of Ender's still requires a player to be playing the game.

And yeah, I remember playing back when it was still possible to hide boats and crates behind trees to protect them from thieves, or how it felt to try to explore and navigate a cave with torchlight. Or how I'd be scared to walk through broadleaf forests because bears could hide behind the round-shrubed trees so much easier than the triangular pines. But I also remember suffering the many surprise maulings the lack of vision or hostility notifications still allowed me to survive and escape because it wasn't certain death.

Considering it takes several million LP to naturally survive a bear attack, having a simple notification or awareness of a hostile creature before it's mauling you (which could potentially result in death), is a perfectly fair trade-off. Similar with the player radar blips, although I really dislike that personally. These things should be built into the game more, with regards to Hearthling detection values, and stealth ratings. Like a bear has low to no stealth being a big fast animal, so they pop up and are more noticeable even by a new Hearthling with a detection level of 10; but say a high Stealth Hearthling shouldn't pop up on their minimap (or be drawn) until they are much closer.

Nightvision is total bullshit, although the game has always needed more sources of light; candle tools that don't require metal, and ways to make torches without linen cloths (also other structural textiles, like woolen cloth, to help offset the ridiculous demand for linen). Hide objects, I sort of covered that a little bit in the paragraph about stealth and detection. Yeah I don't like it so much (although I need it in thicket to have a framerate above slideshow), but without the ability to rotate a camera, the lack of an ability to see behind objects restricts what the game otherwise would provide to your hearthling because of poor interface mechanics (a meta-game issue).

Getting around bad interface issues is a legitimate and respectable method of botting. For example, putting up a construction sign and having a bot automatically transfer materials from your inventory; perfect for someone on a laptop without a scrollwheel.

I don't understand your post, really. Bashing people using a client that overcomes issues and grievences to the interface of the main game client is beneficial in the long run, as it allows the developers to see such issues, and it provides them with examples of alternatives they could use, should they develop new client releases in the future. Also by bashing the usage of the client for such reasons undermines those same arguments FOR botting, in this regard. And finally, the whole schoolyard logic of "its ok if I cheat because they cheated first!" is old and not really a great way to get your point across (although "u bagoused b4 us" is a time-honored Haven & Alt tradition!).

Holy crap you just defined so many lines its ridiculous. "Its okay to see bears because they might kill you!" - its a survival game. You're making assumptions of the devs intents, justifying benefits of client modifications because they point the errors out to the devs, and just basically stating that your opinion is right because of a bunch of rules you yourself defined. You're also getting back into the whole "This bot is okay but this bot isn't" which is clearly not okay because as I stated previously, where do you draw the line? Also client modifications point out less errors to the devs than the need for botting in my opinion.

[AnnaC]

I've never really put any lines down though, because I know it's a sensitive issue and there are a lot of dynamics to it and other meta-gaming mechanics in MMOs.

I was pointing out that Xcom's post was bashing Ender's and custom client users for essentially the same reasons that are useful in supporting botting, which was stupid, and since it was a throwback to the "well its ok to cheat because they did it first!" mindset that annoys me to no end and is something I hate about the common cultural schema of humanity in general.

[MOldAr]

the line

although you cant draw the line between dumb and smart as well it doesnt stop me from noticing how dumb your arguments are

[Xcom]

I've never really put any lines down though, because I know it's a sensitive issue and there are a lot of dynamics to it and other meta-gaming mechanics in MMOs.

I was pointing out that Xcom's post was bashing Ender's and custom client users for essentially the same reasons that are useful in supporting botting, which was stupid, and since it was a throwback to the "well its ok to cheat because they did it first!" mindset that annoys me to no end and is something I hate about the common cultural schema of humanity in general.

Its not about cheating and who cheated first. Nore is it about bashing the Ender client or how it breaks the game. It was about people being hypocrites and as rye130 stated draw the line wherever they please then try ban/shit talk people that goes farther and if your using the Ender client your essentially doing the exact same thing as using scripts.

[ChildhoodObesity]

if your using the Ender client your essentially doing the exact same thing as using scripts.

Also using the benefits of Ender's still requires a player to be playing the game.

[Xcom]

if your using the Ender client your essentially doing the exact same thing as using scripts.

Also using the benefits of Ender's still requires a player to be playing the game.

Leme refraze it for ya so you get the point.

if your using the Ender client your essentially doing the exact same thing as using scripts, by breaking the rules.

Edit: Just to clarify. Bots basically boil down to material wealth which esenshually doesn't make much of an impact other then bragging rights. But the same people that complain about bots are completely ok with using a client that is a game changer in many aspects of the game.

[ChildhoodObesity]

ur logic is still bad m8

[talon00302]

It's pretty amazing what some people can add to clients like union/rizen did.

I know Adriano (AD coder) made some mind blowing improvements to Dev version of Rizen before it was discontinued.

Even though it breaks the game, I really do like haven just for the fact that the client is easy to rewrite and has a pretty creative community.
Inspired me to completely rewrite in a different language to help all those Russians with wooden pc's.