ADVENTURE DIG Bots Strike Again.

[naosnule]

(...)

This has to be among the most unqualified comments I have ever read on these forums. That has absolutely nothing to do with wether you are a carebear or want to PvP. Being able to ruin the work of months within minutes is just entirely horrible game design and belongs into no game whatsoever. It might be time for you to just not post on any matters of game mechanics anymore. Jesus...

The point of permadeath in a MMORPG is precisely that: to risk losing a hell lot in a small window of time.

Nonsense.

Also, the topic at hand is not about permadeath but about the other game mechanics HnH has. Such as building etc. For those permadeath rules do not and should not apply. There is no point in playing the game anymore if anything you build up can be easily wiped out within minutes at any time. Should just give every character a command then to select an area and once you selected it that area is destroyed with everything on it. Would be super fun, right?

I suppose for it to work properly, the player needs to feel that he lost his work for the right reason. Like not having fast enough reflexes, for trusting wrong person, for not scouting an area in time, etc. The list can go on and what people consider as acceptable reasons may of course vary. The key idea is though: you should be able to lose a hell lot during a short amount of time. In "Path of Exile" the reason is: your reflexes sucked, and I accept that reason.

The destruction of nodes yield reasons: you did either not form the correct alliances or your threat of retaliation has not been strong enough. I find both reasons to be satisfying.

[naosnule]

Some people just don't get the point of griefing, not talking about permadeaths or whatever. Those who had the chance to do some industry, know what we are talking about, those who didn't, are throwing words in an empty space

The point of griefing may vary depending on the definiton of griefing. Since I prefer defining it as "The act of either causing grief or intending to cause grief", you have my answer right there.

[Kaios]

naosnule does have a point. It's not as if OP and his group are a bunch of innocents and I will admit this type of full-on node griefing doesn't happen very often later in the world but of course the potential is always there for it to happen. There should always be the possibility to STEAL from a resource node, but this sort of griefing shouldn't happen to such an extent. It's not fun for anyone and that includes the people perpetrating the act.

I still hold the belief that this method of griefing being possible is not right and does require some tweaks to either the quality system or node system.

[burgingham]

I am not sure how anyone can seriously argue that there is some truth to the claim that you should be able to destroy months of work within seconds in a game, especially without having to invest anything yourself. You can spawn a new character and get right to work and 5 minutes later all the work someone has done is gone for no reason whatsoever.

It does not play any role who that person was btw. It is the general problem of game mechanics here.

I have to question either my own or their sanity for having to read this nonsense here. You might want to go and tip over your little brother's Legos if this kind of stuff makes you happy, but it certainly has no place in a game.

You are seriously arguing that I should be able to spawn a fresh alt now, walk up to an established city and fuck up months of their work just by clicking 1 button and waiting 5 minutes? That is insane...

[naosnule]

I am not sure how anyone can seriously argue that there is some truth to the claim that you should be able to destroy months of work within seconds in a game, especially without having to invest anything yourself. You can spawn a new character and get right to work and 5 minutes later all the work someone has done is gone for no reason whatsoever.

It does not play any role who that person was btw. It is the general problem of game mechanics here.

I have to question either my own or their sanity for having to read this nonsense here. You might want to go and tip over your little brother's Legos if this kind of stuff makes you happy, but it certainly has no place in a game.

You are seriously arguing that I should be able to spawn a fresh alt now, walk up to an established city and fuck up months of their work just by clicking 1 button and waiting 5 minutes? That is insane...

The server has not been up for even a month yet, so technically you can't undo months of their work, because they haven't been able to work for that long time.

As I pointed out above, you did convince me that any reason for heavy losses during short timespan is not okay, it has to be for the "right" reasons. If a village takes in a new person without doing any background check and gives that person all keys and full access and then that person betrays them and makes the village take heavy losses, then they lost a hell lot due trusting a complete stranger too much/ being lazy. I find that to be a "right" reason.

[btaylor]

As it stands, it's too easy to grief someone which makes it even more of a "why not?" incentive. For the most part griefers and trolls don't need a reason to do what they do. What faction you play with or whether or not you're peaceful doesn't make any difference at all to them. In example... in Brodgar we've had people spawning new alts and blocking people's houses with alts so they couldn't get in. Are you going to blame the person being griefed that it was their fault for not having a wall up? Another example... someone actually spawned an alt with enough inherited lp to go around with vandalism and destroy/steal from people's stalls. They didn't even benefit from doing this, they simply did it for the sake of being assholes.

[burgingham]

If it was at least possible to punish the "Why not?" faction in a meaningful way I would be totally ok with it. I am not in any way suggesting HnH to become a total carebear game there. Problem is that it takes 0 investment to destroy other people's work, so punishing those who did it means nothing to them.

Btw, this goes in the same direction as the topic. There is nothing "cool" about liking games to be hardcore and having extreme game mechanics. Such mechanics are fine as long as they are meaningful. Griefing for the sake of griefing does simply not make a good game.

[naosnule]

As it stands, it's too easy to grief someone which makes it even more of a "why not?" incentive. For the most part griefers and trolls don't need a reason to do what they do. What faction you play with or whether or not you're peaceful doesn't make any difference at all to them. In example... in Brodgar we've had people spawning new alts and blocking people's houses with alts so they couldn't get in. Are you going to blame the person being griefed that it was their fault for not having a wall up? Another example... someone actually spawned an alt with enough inherited lp to go around with vandalism and destroy/steal from people's stalls. They didn't even benefit from doing this, they simply did it for the sake of being assholes.

A person with nothing to lose is the most dangerous person in the real world. That I agree with.

[rye130]

Some many idiots trying to make argue points which they can't even logically defend. The problem is spawning new alts to vandal a node is fucking stupid and a mechanic that I don't think anyone should defend. That being said no one would be complaining if they risked actual characters to vandal the node as that is an intended mechanic. The problem is not that vandalizing nodes is possible, its that its possible with no risk. That all being said, we really should have just expanded our village claim a bit

[burgingham]

Btw what if you needed proper Survival to actually dig a node down? Just like you need surv now to get the good stuff out of the node.