The Edelreich

[LadyV]

Oh Vaku still up to your selective replies, misrepresentation, and spin control. Anyway I have voiced my issues with your system so people have fair warning if they don't bother to read it all. Either way our conversation is done.

Your system is quite broken and ripe for abuse. As much as you sugar coat it it will simply hurt people. Disregard my suggestion if you will but it does not change your system or you clinging to power.

[Vaku]

Either way our conversation is done.

Disregard my suggestion if you will but it does not change your system or you clinging to power.

Again, don't plead to me, I'm not in control of what I set in motion. I've just given myself an initial and front row seat to observe what happens.

Join, and then you can change it to whatever you want... Like really, whatever you want. xD

It is a shame you will not engage the internal politics with your convictions. Government sustains itself with passion, of which, you have plenty.

[Tonkyhonk]

@LadyV

It is always a silly thing to give advice, but to give good advice is fatal.

[LadyV]

@LadyV

It is always a silly thing to give advice, but to give good advice is fatal.

Then I will have died doing the right thing, my hands free of selfishness and greed.

[Amanosan]

Honestly I don't see what you find wrong in hermits having to him that they want to join the Edelreich, if they do.

It's not like Vaku is asking for a Hearth Secret, or anything like that at all. I'm a hermit that joined the Edelreich, and have NEVER had any issues with that. The army thing too, if you trust it or do not is your own choice, and you do NOT have to even tell anyone where you live and/or have someone spawn on your place if you don't trust or don't want to trust them.

Every law in the Edelreich does not change the way you play, either. If they did, it would be required to read them even if you're not a "Politician". The laws are simply a way to keep relations between villages stable. They do not by any means limit gameplay. If they did, many people would have complained already.

I mean for god's sake, what will you lose by letting him know your Timezone, forum name and what your character role is in Haven? Nothing. It's simply a means to know who's joined the group and who didn't. It is not by any means a way to attack people, or a way to limit their gameplay, or anything like that.

Besides, if you give an argument and do not listen whatsoever to the counter-argument, you're either a kid, or you're not really trying to be constructive. Just trying to instigate some kind of silly forum war. If you truly wanted to be constructive you would have told Vaku what is flawed, what isn't, and how exactly should the Edelreich change.

Did you do that? No. You just went on and on about how it sucks, and how its system is abusive, blah blah blah, and that it should change completely. You did not, in any moment, provide a valid argument saying both good and bad points of the current system, or even good and bad points of your so-called suggestion.

Anyways, I do suggest you stop "trying to suggest something good" to Vaku. It's not at all "something good" if you're just flaming and trying to make confusion in general. If you change your mind and decide to make a real constructive argument, then go ahead. You haven't done it once on the whole topic, so far.

-Amano-

[Amanda44]

Yes, she has and yes, she did - did you actually read her posts? - as always Vaku chooses which points to address and does ignore the others, he always has done. I left this thread once it turned into a discussion on politics as there are others more qualified and knowledgeable on the subject and I can't express my opinions so confidently.

But:

I am, ofc, partly joking in my previous post and therefore slightly exaggerating - - however, if you have followed Vakus previous endeavours you will have noticed a clear theme.

Vakus overall approach is always one of 'telling' us what is best for us based on his perceptions of how we should play and how the community should be run. He clearly seeks some kind of power and recognition in all his threads. I respect his confidence and his commitment and ofc there are going to be people who want to make a name for themselves, I'm not particularly saying that in itself is wrong - I just don't always agree with his decisions or think they are best for the community and I don't want to play Haven under Vakus rule.

I love the freedom this game gives you to make your own choices, and whilst i'm all for community projects, I'm not sure I really want the hearthlands goverened as such, where do you end up drawing the line?

And, I also have concerns about motives. The whole reason I asked the hermit question was because in spite of Vakus assurances that hermits aren't excluded, as ninja yodeler points out, the system isn't designed for hermits - because in Vakus eyes hermits don't hold enough power worth accounting for. His main focus has always been the big factions and towns, naturally, you can't run the hearthlands without some serious support.

And this is just one of many examples where Vaku decides what/who is or isn't important and how things should be done, throughout all his threads.

It's not that I think Vaku wants control for evil intent, lol, I just think centralising power to control the hearthlands is not going to be for the good of the hearthlings, hearthlands or game as a whole. It will no doubt be interesting though.


All that said ...................... i'll join if I can be Queen,


Not really, lol.

[Cranny]

-Amano-

Tbh I dont see LadyV being disrespectfull, instigating some forum war, not listening a Vakus answers and flaming, I only see she disagrees with Vakus thoughts.
I allways read her posts and respect very much her opinion, because never I have read her posting without respect and meaning. Allways she supports what she says with facts. (I have to say some few times I disagree with her too, tbh).


In this case I do think this would mean a huge concentration of power, and such power in the hands of few players not allways will be good for the rest of the H&H players, even less for hermits or crafting neutral villages. Ofc if you are in the powerfull side you most probably will like it.

About time frames, I disagree with you, players do wait to raid at the most convinient day and hour. They not only wait to have a bunch on their side, they also make intelligence to know when to raid and what to destroy. A lot of villages have been spyed and actually have members that do pass info, even not wanting to, just because they are friends to someone outside.
What will happen to those that have given this info and decide to leave this union becoming part of the non powerfull, non united inhabitants of this world?.

At first when I read your post I thought it was someone using a new alt account to defend Vakus theory, as we all know LadyV and her ways from years, but after reading this about time frames I think you are new to the game, (because it is so obvious), and I believe you are convinced about what you are defending.
I wish you well in this social adventure and I wish it will not become just another powerfull faction like we have seen in the past, but grow into a real way to help each other that this world lacks.


-

[Amanosan]

Yes, she has and yes, she did - did you actually read her posts? - as always Vaku chooses which points to address and does ignore the others, he always has done. I left this thread once it turned into a discussion on politics as there are others more qualified and knowledgeable on the subject and I can't express my opinions so confidently.

But:

I am, ofc, partly joking in my previous post and therefore slightly exaggerating - - however, if you have followed Vakus previous endeavours you will have noticed a clear theme.

Vakus overall approach is always one of 'telling' us what is best for us based on his perceptions of how we should play and how the community should be run. He clearly seeks some kind of power and recognition in all his threads. I respect his confidence and his commitment and ofc there are going to be people who want to make a name for themselves, I'm not particularly saying that in itself is wrong - I just don't always agree with his decisions or think they are best for the community and I don't want to play Haven under Vakus rule.

I love the freedom this game gives you to make your own choices, and whilst i'm all for community projects, I'm not sure I really want the hearthlands goverened as such, where do you end up drawing the line?

And, I also have concerns about motives. The whole reason I asked the hermit question was because in spite of Vakus assurances that hermits aren't excluded, as ninja yodeler points out, the system isn't designed for hermits - because in Vakus eyes hermits don't hold enough power worth accounting for. His main focus has always been the big factions and towns, naturally, you can't run the hearthlands without some serious support.

And this is just one of many examples where Vaku decides what/who is or isn't important and how things should be done, throughout all his threads.

It's not that I think Vaku wants control for evil intent, lol, I just think centralising power to control the hearthlands is not going to be for the good of the hearthlings, hearthlands or game as a whole. It will no doubt be interesting though.

Well, I may have overdone it by saying she had no argument, but she did overdo the whole "sick of your twists and lies" part(which was sort of why I wind up saying that). I can't say that Vaku does not want power, nor that he is doing this with good purposes, as I have no proof. However, based on what I know about The Edelreich, not about Vaku, I can tell that it means no danger(to hermits at the very least). While it does not provide a lot of support to hermits, it has literally no downsides for hermits either. I can't say much about villages, though, as I don't know how it works to be a village for the Edelreich yet, and may never know.

I just feel that while this is a government sort of idea, it doesn't bind hermits in any way. They are free to do whatever they want, like usual, but having some sort of support, even if not a lot, if they need it. Plus you get to socialize more than usual hermits

-Amano-

Tbh I dont see LadyV being disrespectfull, instigating some forum war, not listening a Vakus answers and flaming, I only see she disagrees with Vakus thoughts.
I allways read her posts and respect very much her opinion, because never I have read her posting without respect and meaning. Allways she supports what she says with facts. (I have to say some few times I disagree with her too, tbh).


In this case I do think this would mean a huge concentration of power, and such power in the hands of few players not allways will be good for the rest of the H&H players, even less for hermits or crafting neutral villages. Ofc if you are in the powerfull side you most probably will like it.

About time frames, I disagree with you, players do wait to raid at the most convinient day and hour. They not only wait to have a bunch on their side, they also make intelligence to know when to raid and what to destroy. A lot of villages have been spyed and actually have members that do pass info, even not wanting to, just because they are friends to someone outside.
What will happen to those that have given this info and decide to leave this union becoming part of the non powerfull, non united inhabitants of this world?.

At first when I read your post I thought it was someone using a new alt account to defend Vakus theory, as we all know LadyV and her ways from years, but after reading this about time frames I think you are new to the game, (because it is so obvious), and I believe you are convinced about what you are defending.
I wish you well in this social adventure and I wish it will not become just another powerfull faction like we have seen in the past, but grow into a real way to help each other that this world lacks.


-

Well, I did overdo on my last post, and for that I apologize. I did not see ALL of her posts as that, nor did I see everything in them as that. The whole "selective replies, misrepresentation, and spin control" part is what made me overdo on my last post, however. There is simply no proof that it is what Vaku is doing, so it can be taken as disrespectful and/or an attempt to flame by anyone who thinks that is overdone.

While it may be a concentration of power, I think it doesn't really change much to any minor groups that wind up joining, other than the fact they get to socialize more. It does however change a LOT the gameplay for any major groups/factions that decide to join, but then again, they are joining out of their own free will. It's not like the Edelreich forces membership (as far as I know anyway, there COULD be evil schemes going on without me knowing, lol).

About the time frame thing. I don't believe it would be an issue without them knowing where they live, even less of an issue if they don't even know which part of the map it is situated at.

I've only joined the Edelreich in hopes that it is not "just another powerful faction". Since it's not so focused area-wise, I thought it may be safe to join, and in case it does disappoint and winds up another big faction, I'll hopefully not be in danger due to nobody knowing my location...and if I do, it happened. I'm probably not even going to become advanced with this character anytime soon, considering how I've been busy lately, so I don't mind risking it.

@Edit: Also, in case the Edelreich does turn into something like that...I may give the whole "making a faction that doesn't abuse other players" a try in Hafen, once it's released. It sounds challenging and may actually make me want to play Haven. I like haven, don't get that wrong. It's just that the content updates are way too slow for my liking and since I'm the kind of gamer that cannot keep playing without updates, I wind up getting tired/bored of the game before anything interesting is released.

-Amano-

[Vaku]

About time frames...What will happen to those that have given this info and decide to leave this union becoming part of the non powerfull, non united inhabitants of this world?.

What I make in confidence, I keep in confidence. Moreover, most recruitment threads request that people openly state their timezone.

Stickied at the top of the subforum:

4: You NEED to give your timezone, experience(don't lie, people can tell), and any other information so people can decide if they want you in their village

You have the Hearthland's renowned and trusted Eemerald requesting location. And timezones, they are based off of global locations. Most countries fall into 1-3 timezones depending on their region:

...
Name
Age
Location
How long you've played Haven
Why you want to join
Describe your game play
How much can you play
Do you have Skype?
...

And I have no beef with the above, on the contrary. These sources have been integral to crafting the three questions I ask players, "Name, Playstyle, and Timezone." And these can be, in only the most fantastically imagined circumstances, used for nefarious purposes.

No one in fact even need know that you joined. In the letter I send people to acknowledge their oath, I give every individual the option for me to publicly welcome them, as a courtesy (& to bump the thread), or to decline a public welcome, so that he or she remain anonymous.

As I've said, made in confidence, kept in confidence.

About the time frame thing. I don't believe it would be an issue without them knowing where they live, even less of an issue if they don't even know which part of the map it is situated at...

Another good point. We're not Big Brother over here, or more sinisterly, the NSA

I may give the whole "making a faction that doesn't abuse other players" a try in Hafen, once it's released. It sounds challenging and may actually make me want to play Haven.

It does make the game a lot more interesting for everyone to try and to this. You see individuals in the past in their attempts to terrorize, and that pushes away a lot of the playerbase when those succeed. It's much more difficult to bring people together, and together in such a way, that they keep their lives when in conflict with each other, by talking through their issues.

This is what is going on in the Edelreich. We're very much the benevolent and conscious new guys on the block.

[Eemerald]

tbf certain info is necessary in recruitment. I tend to ask for a lot of info because I pick particular types of people I think would fit into the type of town EC is like.


As much as I do like the idea, many of my villagers do not. LadyV being one of those. I also don't see what additional benefit being part of the edelreich would do to my town.

but good luck with it:)