Prelude: World 16.1

[Halbertz]

instead of completely removing PvP in haven everyone that attacked someone died 15-30 seconds later?

And how does it solve anything? I bet there will be more noob killing, lol.

[OIchi]

instead of completely removing PvP in haven everyone that attacked someone died 15-30 seconds later?

And how does it solve anything? I bet there will be more noob killing, lol.

Somehow in EVE there is barely any noob killing in Hi-sec, People only target very high value industrials.
Losing your character or gear every time you ko'd a noob should be deterrent enough in my opinion.

PS. It's not actually solution I support. Just trying to prove my point about EVE hi-sec.

[SnuggleSnail]

I don't rly think it's a useful argument to have. Jorbtar have clearly decided they want the game to have some form of PVP, it's like the only thing that's been consistent over the course of like 15 years.

That said, I really struggle to imagine long term play being interesting in haven without PVP. You build your base in 1-4 weeks, and then what? Raise the quality of your carrots indefinitely? You can kill a bear or a troll with 50 strength and then the PVE side of the game is kindof over.

Maybe it would be fun for people who are new or bad, since maybe a bear or a troll presents a challenge to you if you're not experienced, but the problem with that is inexperienced people eventually become experienced people. An MMO with nothing to motivate you to keep playing longer than one month seems very... Stupid?

[scouter1]

chat, they are already cooking



mods please close thread. EXPERIMENT IDEA HAS BEEN CHOSEN

[Halbertz]

but calling it a PvP zone is ridiculous

But it is pvp zone with more complicated rules. Idk, may be you didn't play the game past sisters arc or smth.

Somehow in EVE there is barely any noob killing in Hi-sec, People only target very high value industrials.

70kk noob mining ship
https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#{%22buttons%22:[%22week%22,%22label-loc:highsec%22,%22sort-date%22,%22sort-desc%22,%22page1%22,%22victimsonly%22],%22neutrals%22:[{%22type%22:%22shipID%22,%22id%22:17478}],%22includeAssociates%22:true}
Rattlesnakes (mostly mission runners):
https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#{%22buttons%22:[%22togglefilters%22,%22week%22,%22label-loc:highsec%22,%22victims-aand%22,%22sort-date%22,%22sort-desc%22,%22page1%22,%22victimsonly%22],%22victims%22:[{%22type%22:%22shipID%22,%22id%22:%2217918%22}],%22includeAssociates%22:false}

Losing your character or gear every time you ko'd a noob should be deterrent enough in my opinion.

I'll give you a hint - it will be like in Eve: throwaway characters that will target smug afkers women, minorities in safe zones

[OIchi]

I don't rly think it's a useful argument to have. Jorbtar have clearly decided they want the game to have some form of PVP, it's like the only thing that's been consistent over the course of like 15 years.

That said, I really struggle to imagine long term play being interesting in haven without PVP. You build your base in 1-4 weeks, and then what? Raise the quality of your carrots indefinitely? You can kill a bear or a troll with 50 strength and then the PVE side of the game is kindof over.

Maybe it would be fun for people who are new or bad, since maybe a bear or a troll presents a challenge to you if you're not experienced, but the problem with that is inexperienced people eventually become experienced people. An MMO with nothing to motivate you to keep playing longer than one month seems very... Stupid?

It's exactly why it needs to be separate PvE server, so people can take their time and learn the game. So people that are new, bad or don't have much time to play can take things at a slower pace.
Once you get bored switch to a PvP server, at this point you can actually fight against other players and not just trying to survive environment.
Seen some stats about it, don't remember where: Given the choice most people start playing the game on a PvE servers (~80%), but most of them switch to a PvP servers after one playthrough (~65%).

[Halbertz]

That said, I really struggle to imagine long term play being interesting in haven without PVP. You build your base in 1-4 weeks, and then what?

They are going to create cool communites and build mega projects!
Ofc, no, they won't. Most people requesting a PvE server are solo players or small groups who have never been interested in building relationships with anyone in this game. As we know, all these "large factions" have many players who never or rarely participate in PvP, but still play in groups with others who enjoy it.
Even if you're bad at it or don't enjoy the process of gulping down water and running around the field, you can always delegate this part of the process to your teammates. MMO part of the game.
But no, people who scribble the same old stuff over and over don't even think that way. Instead, they want the game to be tailored purely to their interests (and sometimes the interests of their friends).

It's exactly why it needs to be separate PvE server, so people can take their time and learn the game. So people that are new, bad or don't have much time to play can take things at a slower pace.

It's an option at any given time. You don't need stats, skills or deep game knowledge. Starting barrier: 10 minutes of forum tutorials and 10 minutes of running practice and you will be on par with regular faction blober. But you (or whoever you are talking about) will never do it.

[SnuggleSnail]

so basically from your POV it's spend an immense amount of dev time/effort to basically create a tutorial that doesn't teach you anything about the "real" version of the game. Everybody is then expected to move to the PVP/real version after feeling really bad about losing the effort they spent in the month long tutorial?

no offense but like
holy shit

[OIchi]

but calling it a PvP zone is ridiculous

But it is pvp zone with more complicated rules. Idk, may be you didn't play the game past sisters arc or smth.

Somehow in EVE there is barely any noob killing in Hi-sec, People only target very high value industrials.

70kk noob mining ship
https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#{%22buttons%22:[%22week%22,%22label-loc:highsec%22,%22sort-date%22,%22sort-desc%22,%22page1%22,%22victimsonly%22],%22neutrals%22:[{%22type%22:%22shipID%22,%22id%22:17478}],%22includeAssociates%22:true}
Rattlesnakes (mostly mission runners):
https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#{%22buttons%22:[%22togglefilters%22,%22week%22,%22label-loc:highsec%22,%22victims-aand%22,%22sort-date%22,%22sort-desc%22,%22page1%22,%22victimsonly%22],%22victims%22:[{%22type%22:%22shipID%22,%22id%22:%2217918%22}],%22includeAssociates%22:false}

Losing your character or gear every time you ko'd a noob should be deterrent enough in my opinion.

I'll give you a hint - it will be like in Eve: throwaway characters that will target smug afkers women, minorities in safe zones

I mean it does sometimes happen.
Many of those kills here are due to wars, so basically opting out of protection. Also there is currently an event where implants drop so its quite a bit inflated.
EVE has way more player than Haven and it's way more combat focused, which also factors in.
But you are right. Hi-Sec is not that safe.

[OIchi]

so basically from your POV it's spend an immense amount of dev time/effort to basically create a tutorial that doesn't teach you anything about the "real" version of the game. Everybody is then expected to move to the PVP/real version after feeling really bad about losing the effort they spent in the month long tutorial?

no offense but like
holy shit

Spend minimal amount of time/effort to create a version of the game that caters to big part of the playerbase and promotes community growth.
Do you feel that bad about effort you spent in the game each world?

It's an option at any given time. You don't need stats, skills or deep game knowledge. Starting barrier: 10 minutes of forum tutorials and 10 minutes of running practice and you will be on par with regular faction blober. But you (or whoever you are talking about) will never do it.

You are being ridiculous. You have spent years playing this game and it seems to you to be so simple that you can explain it in 10 minutes?
Even for players with years of experience there are things that may surprise them. Obscure mechanics that may get you killed. Like Palisade splash, revoke permission, entirety of siege, visitor traps etc.
Also "taking things at your own pace" means figuring things out on your own having fun in the game instead of jumping straight to cheesing or botting every mechanics in the game.