Prelude: World 13

[abt79]

The requirements for a Snekkja, the minimum required vehicle for ocean travel, are sufficiently steep that you do not get the chance to travel away from the continent until you're already properly established and have less reason to be worried about bullies, trolls and griefers. If bullies, trolls and griefers are a serious problem, you'll never get to the point where you can build a Snekkja.

whirlpools really aint that hard to use tbh

[VDZ]

The requirements for a Snekkja, the minimum required vehicle for ocean travel, are sufficiently steep that you do not get the chance to travel away from the continent until you're already properly established and have less reason to be worried about bullies, trolls and griefers. If bullies, trolls and griefers are a serious problem, you'll never get to the point where you can build a Snekkja.

whirlpools really aint that hard to use tbh

You have no idea where you end up with a whirlpool, though. Often enough you'll end up somewhere else on the same continent.

[kabuto202]

I mean even for developers must be frustrating to see every feature you throw into the game being exploited or circumvented. I've been into this game long enough to see for myself than none of the big features (localized resources, big game hunting, big pvp battles, sieges, conquers and realm expansions, etc.) were ever played how they were meant to be.

Are you saying they need to change the players? :thinking: Because (a subset of) the players will always go for the most optimal way to (ab)use features, no matter what their original intent was. There's no remedy for this other than to just have a playerbase that just agrees to play fair, which I simply don't think is possible with Haven's scale and it being an MMO.

OR... OR... Actually implement and enforce anti-botting measures.

Alternatively we can just continue being


inb4 someone who never worked in game security before explains why a totally real crack team of Chinese hackers who are making millions of USD via HnH gold farming will just bypass it anyways so there is literally no point in taking their bots away.

Anyways, I didn't post here to be salty about the obvious problem that for years has attempted to be solved by treating the symptoms and never addressing the core issue. I wanted to express the hype for new world so that me and my mates can play for a few months before quitting again cause we got rolled by a bunch of rage alts after getting our wall broken down by a ram surrounded by 1k stat bots. Too bad it's so close to the Evil Genius 2 release.

[abt79]

You have no idea where you end up with a whirlpool, though. Often enough you'll end up somewhere else on the same continent.

k so then what u do is repair boat and go back in whirlpool

[the_portals]

[VDZ]

OR... OR... Actually implement and enforce anti-botting measures.

Every anti-cheat measure has an equivalent amount of collateral damage. At the very least, custom clients would have to be killed off entirely. But no matter how much you try to fight it, worst case botters can still just scan the screen and simulate keyboard/mouse input to mimic genuine play behavior. I've played an MMO before where every now and then while crafting you had to solve an in-game captcha (using game sprites rather than words or photographs); failure to solve it in time would get a GM to check on you. Is that the future you want for Haven?

cause we got rolled by a bunch of rage alts after getting our wall broken down by a ram surrounded by 1k stat bots. Too bad it's so close to the Evil Genius 2 release.

That's going to happen anyways unless you have absolutely no life and join a large group of players who similarly have no life. It's inevitable that whoever spends more time in-game and plays with more people will progress faster than you. Accept that some players will always be stronger than you and avoid attracting attention from the people who can crush you.

k so then what u do is repair boat and go back in whirlpool

But what if the whirlpool did send me to another continent, and by hopping to the next whirlpool I get sent back to the starting continent again? There's no way to tell how many hops it requires to get to another continent, because each new entry can send you back to the starting continent.

[Liss12]

hey Loftar, can you change natural resources timers to be random ? so its anything between 6 and 60 hours between spawns ? it would positively affect non-botters for sure

The exact timing is irrelevant to bots; they can log in and do their thing whenever.

If you mean being unable to predict or check when they regenerate their resources, the point of the localized resources was that they could be a source of conflict. Nobody's going to fight someone else near a resource if nobody has any idea when it will regenerate. If it were to work like that, the only feasible way to know when they've regenerated would be...to use a bot to check it frequently. Not a positive change for non-botters.

If you really want to mess with resource botting you should make logging in or out near the localized resources impossible. Lets say if you are trying to log in closer than 200 tiles to localized resource you would be sent to your HF instead, so botters would have to walk said 200 tiles in order to check resource and walk back to log out. That would probably deter many of them, and in case of very presistent botters- at least you can knock their bots out on the way to resource and actually compete this way.

[Dressa]

Jorb, can you tell me, please, what music is playing in the trailer, and can you share it somehow? Turned out i really like it. Thank you and Loftar for all the stuff!

I think its made by him https://www.reverbnation.com/kakadlx And its the kakas 6th track.

Woah, didnt know this playlist, this is a piece of art! damn how I'd love to see those songs added to the game!

[Okocim]

I like the idea of everyone spawning into the central continent, then putting the burden on the hermits to relocate to "get away" from the bullies, trolls, and griefers.

The requirements for a Snekkja, the minimum required vehicle for ocean travel, are sufficiently steep that you do not get the chance to travel away from the continent until you're already properly established and have less reason to be worried about bullies, trolls and griefers. If bullies, trolls and griefers are a serious problem, you'll never get to the point where you can build a Snekkja.

I don't get it, so your solution is to spread people evenly and remove the "get away" option entirely?
With the w12 spawn location you at least get to chose if you want to settle in more peaceful area or around other ppl.
Also, how is getting more wealth making you less worried about bullies? Losing a 3 days old character isn't as bad as losing month old one.

[kabuto202]

Every anti-cheat measure has an equivalent amount of collateral damage. At the very least, custom clients would have to be killed off entirely. But no matter how much you try to fight it, worst case botters can still just scan the screen and simulate keyboard/mouse input to mimic genuine play behavior. I've played an MMO before where every now and then while crafting you had to solve an in-game captcha (using game sprites rather than words or photographs); failure to solve it in time would get a GM to check on you. Is that the future you want for Haven?

I'm not sure if I want to take the time to seriously reply to this or condescendingly mock you. I guess I'll do a mixture of both.

Yes, as we all know. All anti-bot measures, which are the same as as anti-cheat measures, completely destroy every game to the point of unplayability. This is why every other game in existance is completely barren, unplayed by anyone, as all enjoyment is destroyed by the tyrannical fist of anti-bo- I meant anti-cheats. Likewise, as you imply, the developers are peon brained and cannot develop a basic system to distinguish between AFK botting actions and custom clients of which they have source code access too. In no way is it humanly possible to separate the two. Likewise, any implementation of possible anti-bo- I mean anti-cheats, but be the worst and most invasive form possible. Clearly only with kernel level access is this possible, as with all other games in existence. In no way, is a combination of basic detection/logging with occasional mod review to doll out harsh punishment is sufficient for a community that is at best several hundred large. As we all know, HnH is the new CS:GO and the integrity of the e-sports scene must be maintained with only the most intrustive anti-cheat systems. You are absolutely right that unless literal billions of dollars are invested in this it is literally impossible to solve this issue without completely ruining the game which is why no small scale indie multiplayer games ever been able to successfully address this problem. Literally none. Zero. Not even one.