Prelude: World 12

[jorb]

Why even have cosmetics and visual fancy things if raids will be so easy to do?

I think you overestimate the simplicity of it by at least some amount. The defender controls the timing, and has time to build archery towers to counter rams. The defender has perfect information on when things could happen. It is not trivial to break in.

[Necroliter]

Some points about siege nobody is mentioning:
1) There is absolutely no penalty for the attacker losing. There is no death. Losing some steel armor is not at all significant, and with the suggested UA/MC scaling, I doubt anybody will even care that much about gilding. It seems unfair to put people in a situation where if they lose, their base is lost, and if they win nothing happens.

As an option - lock ability to siege active villages (and PClaims?) behind activating mode similar to Murderous Rage, that will put raiding party in the risk of death upon losing the fight. Not entirely sure if it is possible to enforce use of such ability though.

[jorb]

General,

Very appreciative of the comments, guys.

Some ideas floated that I find somewhat appealling:

• Resource/skill cost to inspect claims.
• Some combination of less often/shorter window
• Look at credos.

Keep them up, and I'm glad we're passionate about the issue. So are we.

[SnuggleSnail]

[*] Resource/skill cost to inspect claims.

If botting to check when the vulnerability window is active is undesireable, then doesn't this imply you want a large portion of the siege system -knowing when to attack- to be luck based? I feel like given the stakes luck being a relevant factor seems undesireable

[Hrenli]

Thinking about a world without spiraling I wonder how its gonna affect the mining. Is the idea to keep hardness of rock about the same as it is and the only way to reliably mine on lower levels is to have insane amount of str (as we aren't gonna see that high q pickaxes)? Or you are planning to tune the hardness down a bit before the world starts?

[Enjoyment_2]

And obviously it leads to "how not allow enemies to get to your core in 8 hours" and "how to distract enemies for 20 mins while the ram is drying".
Literally NOONE will even say a word about "setting up a proper window to bring the proper sieges as devs think we should".

This is, of course, our own assumption in discussing these systems. We do not at all imagine that people will somehow play nice with our implementations.

well, then you should understand that the ONLY reason to make this change is not a viable reason. So no one will gain anything good (proper good sieges for ppl - never happen) from this change while much more ppl will just suffer (hermits harassment will raise to a new level) from it.
And here is the perfect moment to think "so why are we doing this change?"

[vidgin]

I suggest:
1. Permadeath vs. non-Permadeath. (RAge)
I like PvP, I like the idea to fight for resourses, or places, or anything else. It is good to have a risk of loosing something. But Permadeath - is the way not for everyone. So I suggest:
1.0. Everyone can attack everyone, Rage doesn't effect this.
1.1. If you want Permadeath, choose the Rage and get all loot from your enemies.
1.2. If you don't want Permadeath, you can't loot defeated enemies at all, so there will be no need to attack someone just for loot.
Because W11 was cancerlike in PvP. Because even if I didn't take rage skill, everyone with Rage skill could Permakill me. More to say: 3 players with Rage could attack one player without Rage. But 3 players without Rage couldn't attack one with Rage. It was ABSOLUTElY pointless imbalanced skill and decision. So we couldn't even protect our Village.

So new Permadeath sistem will make more PvP cases and less players who leave the game because of loosing everything. Your system with inheritance is pointless because THE numbers in this game mean everything in fight and gameplay. Let players who doesn't want Permadeath the chance to fight against PvP-twinks from big geek-villages. Nobody wants to go at War if they don't have additional PvP-twink. So my new PvP-system will reduce the need in PvP-twinks and their POWER in the world. Because more people will try to alience and fight PvP-players to protect themself. More people will have opportunity to fight using main characters! For example, my friend played as farmer. He didn't want to PvP outside. But when he wanted to help me when I was attacked, he couldn't because: a) he hadn't Rage and couldn't attack anyone; b) The chance of victory was low and he was afraid of perma-loosing his character. The current system is just ruin Balance and all PvP-gameplay, imho.

2. Siege.
The problem is in core of Siege. WE are playing RPG game with stats and items with stats. So loosing the character and items (like axes) with stats - is the over of the game for 99% players (except real geeks). Is it really what you want? Make it funny!
2.1. Make catapults hit further, everyone can siege even without Permadeath-option.
2.2. Catapults can't destroy buildings and structures, but can damage them.
2.3. Damaged buildings loose cells inside (like downfalls). Repairing the buildings restore lost cells inside. So if your house was damaged, you temporarily loose the access to your wardrobe on fallen cell, till you repair your house.
2.4. Siege machines can damage walls (in the way you want, even with your new W12 system with windows).
2.5. If enemies get inside the claim they can't destroy anything, except walls and chests. They can just DAMAGE it. So there will be chance to repair it and continue to play.
2.6. The enemies inside the claim can take everything except the forbidden cells.
2.7. According to Claim level, you get 2-10 forbidden cells, where you can place the chests with items. You can store there most valuable items. More the village, more the level, more forbidden cells. up to 10 for example. You can add forbidden anymal hosts if needed. For example 6 hosts, every animal who hatch to it will be unavaible for assaulters. So there will be the chance to save MOST valuable items that will allow player continue playing after the SIEGE.
2.8. Damaged structures more that 80% became useless.

So the Siege will be more often but less destruction. It will make players to create unions OR pay ransoms! Because now if you destroy the village, YOU DESTROY it at all. But with my version Siege will not be the end. It would be the start of new diplomacy. After defeating people can start to pay ransom, or start to search new alliences.

The main idea is to make balance between the risk and fail. The players have to loose anything in PvP and Siege, but not EVERYTHING. It will stimulate diplomacy. Because now (in W11 or W10) everyone feared everyone, because loosing was letal, so the world filled with PvP-twinks. Do you really want players to feed twinks?? Really?

If you'll tell that this is not realistic, I will tell you next. In the past people could kill people forever, could destroy villages forever. But! some people survived and made childrens (NEW PEOPLE), who growed and made new people, new villages. This system was reproductible and therefore viable. But you want to copy permadeath from there to the game, but you can't copy reproductive system. And then we have next: people die, go out the game and that's all. Nobody comes instead of them except occassional noobies who doesn't see many players and go out too. It is not the same thing with survived people made NEW people, and when player loose his character and makes new one. Because the wish to play is not like have a sex and make another children.

People need laws to live and play with each other. But there will be no laws in the world, where the strongest became more stronger and kick out more weak players out of the server.

[Pickard]

Remove quests.
Remove visitor.
Revive palibashers.
Ram in the bush was the best siege mechanichs ever. Period.

[pimotimo]

How about making winter the raiding season, for example by having 2 or even 3 siege windows at 5 day intervals (e.g. start, mid, end of winter).

Everyone knows exactly when everyone else is vulnerable. No need for bot claim inspectors. Because there is no ambiguity, you know when you need to prepare archery towers and make contingencies well in advance. Doing this for a few days every two-month period is more bearable than every two weeks. Something for large factions to care about in winter. And another reason to hate the season for everyone.

Winter could be the time of turmoil and change.

The bonus is that martial players have to be concerned about both defense and offense at the same time, while peaceful players only about the defense. Meaning that a player's aggressiveness is kept in check by the fact that he himself is vulnerable to raiding at the exact same timeframe. For larger faction I envision this turning into a kind of brinkmanship, where it's dangerous to go on an all in offense with your strongest fighters, because then your own hearth is vulnerable. And on the flipside, a siege can be turned around by forcing enemies to hearth back to defend their assets.

I actually like this idea

[shubla]

Remove quests.
Remove visitor.
Revive palibashers.
Ram in the bush was the best siege mechanichs ever. Period.

Bugram times were good times.