Prelude: World 12

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby xzo » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:10 pm

maybe in pvp stats should be capped by the other person stats ?

I will put up scenario when 1 person is being ganked (A) by player with higher stats (B), and then aided by friend with even higher stats (C)
by stats i mean str mc ua agi, this cant affect con obviously

so if you have players
A: stats 500
B: stats 1000
C: stats 2000

when A fights with B
A: stats 500 vs B
B: stats 750 vs A

then C come to aid A so he fights against B
A: stats 500 vs B
B: stats 750 vs A / stats 1000 vs C
C: stats 1500 vs B


also not a big fan of very short raiding windows, but im sure you will adjust it right and I like your argument with archery towers, I hope to see them in action at some point :D, but please consider some layers of protection for people that want to build markets

about looking into credos, there was great idea in CI to make credo quests based on "do this OR do that" to make it easier and more fun

love the trailer,few ester eggs spotted, and cant wait for more !
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Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby DDDsDD999 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:18 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:
julian12it wrote:Can we make credos less cancerous maybe?


This a million times. Please just remove all of the powerful perks from credos.
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All of the power gamers hate credos, and the vast majority of people who like them seem to not like them for their power. Removing most of the quality related stuff, speed bonuses, study speed bonuses, etc seems like something that would leave most people happy.

Credos are probably the #1 thing that holds me back from wanting to play, they're so cancer.
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Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby shubla » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:22 pm

DDDsDD999 wrote:
SnuggleSnail wrote:
julian12it wrote:Can we make credos less cancerous maybe?


This a million times. Please just remove all of the powerful perks from credos.
Image

All of the power gamers hate credos, and the vast majority of people who like them seem to not like them for their power. Removing most of the quality related stuff, speed bonuses, study speed bonuses, etc seems like something that would leave most people happy.

Credos are probably the #1 thing that holds me back from wanting to play, they're so cancer.

But you can play without getting them?
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Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby Clenda » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:23 pm

My big point of the 8 hours windows time : We need to be connected

Other game that do the same systeme offer notification tools : as you need to be ready to defend, not connected during all the defend time(Not Online)

if i need to be connected i expect that the window is no more than 2 hours (for real life purpose...)
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Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby pppp » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:30 pm

One of problems with this system is everyone has to be ready for defense on 20 minutes call every two weeks for 8 hours, regardless of any raider being interested in the claim or not. That is a huge waste of energy and motivation. If there is an alliance of, say 5 villages then it means 20 hours per week of readiness to defend own or allied village, just in case. That's why there should be a mechanics for the attacker to show interest first. See timers idea as an example.
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Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby reticent » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:19 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:All of the power gamers hate credos, and the vast majority of people who like them seem to not like them for their power. Removing most of the quality related stuff, speed bonuses, study speed bonuses, etc seems like something that would leave most people happy.


Powergamers hate credos because they feel compelled to grind them to win out in competition with other powergamers, but the process is slow, requires considerable time investment and not is not exactly easy to automate.

Which are good reasons for keeping the bonuses strong and desirable, actually. Remove the ability to define a character further by grinding quests, and you remove a huge incentive to play more, while the best players will still have a host of interchangeable alts, from transforming their bot-powered cheese/pepper/farming/cooking industries into character stats.

At least with credos, someone who bothered to get swimming, stamina, ridge-jumping bonuses would have a slight edge over the clone horde. And why not? Making the best fighter character should be more than sitting at the table and keeping study desk filled.

Credos are one of the mechanics that are bot-hostile, and require a human to set up. "Powergamers" hate them precisely because they have to trade much honest effort for that power, and they need more power than most others to stay on top. I would see it as the price of superiority. And as annoying as it is, it's a good motivator and an even better time sink.
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Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby SnuggleSnail » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:40 pm

@reticent
You're not a "power gamer"
The power gamers don't find the mechanic fun
Irrespective of this mechanics, the power gamers can do w/e they want to you, so it will have no effect on you


Genuinely the only reason I can see for you holding this opinion is wanting other to have less fun out of spite
also, just like all of the other ppl who have never been in a significant village you're wrong about the extent things are automated
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Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby kmarad » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:11 pm

The main problem with the claims power, is that it's easily worked around : have one village and one vault. When you need to upgrade your security, stash your shit in your vault and that's it, you don't have to worry about getting raided since your place is empty...
Last edited by kmarad on Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby Amanda44 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:15 pm

algeralith wrote:I think people need to take a minute and read the actual changes to villages.

Like, seriously think of those repercussions. Assuming you are already max power level, you need to raise it back up every two weeks.

That means, once every two weeks, your entire village can be raided in as little as an hour.

Everything you have worked on can be gone, and there is nothing you can do about it.

All the casual players are essentially about to get fucked over, and any big groups will still succeed.

You just encouraged large faction play anymore.

You just encouraged people to write bots that log on semi-regularly just to check a claims status.

This is such a terrible change, and I can not see myself playing with such a system.


This ^^

Roughly 70% of the playerbase are small groups and hermits who don't play in factions because they don't want to, you can't force ppl into a playstyle just because you want more combat related themes to the game. Playing in a faction is in a lot of ways very restrictive, you need to choose a role and specialise in it, basically cutting yourself off from the majority of the games content, to some this is attractive but to most it is just a quick road to boredom and burn out.

The appeal of haven for non-combat players has always been the freedom, the freedom to design your own set up, the freedom to explore and discover, the freedom of choosing what you do in any given minute, hour, day.
There is always an element of risk, be it from raiders or outside encounters and that is fine, exciting even, but to bring that to the point where you can lose everything on a two weekly basis unless you can be online and be able to defend yourself is just going way too far.

I think you aren't looking closely enough at the bigger picture, to start with you are going to lose a large percentage of these players, remember these are the players that last the longest in worlds, the ones like myself that have played from each world start until it's end. Like Borka, and many others, I have been here for nine years, I love haven, not happy with a lot of the changes you guys make here and there but the game is still playable, still enjoyable and with a bit of planning you can still tailor your game to match the time you have available ... and I'm still here. :)

I'm die-hard enough that I probably will start the new world, even though I'm incredibly disheartened and saddened by the changes, but I doubt I'll stay once I'm established enough (if I even have time to become established enough, lol) that it will hurt if I lose everything, not when it can potentially be a fortnightly event! Lol, who has time for that?!

Factions .... yes, they will cope better with the changes and I daresay find ways around everything and the changes probably will bring about more conflict, but, what happens when one does get successfully raided and loses all their infrastructure, the basis needed to build up their warriors ... you already know that once a faction loses their warriors the faction basically dies. They quit when they are bored and no combat is happening and they quit when they lose their star attractions. Start of the world, yeah, it will be fun for them, more raiding, more siege attempts, more fighting ... but later, again once established, is two weeks going to be enough time to gain it all back before in a weakened state they have to suffer it all again?

We all, the core playerbase, can cope and rebuild with loses here and there, it's haven life, but having to deal with it every two weeks ... c'mon, lol, that just isn't going to happen.

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Re: Prelude: World 12

Postby Hrenli » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:25 pm

kmarad wrote:When you need to upgrade your security, stash your shit in your vault and that's it, you don't have to worry about getting raided since your place is empty...


Good luck moving your infrastructure (kilns, ovens, well etc). And this time kilns/ovens would seem much less temporary because of no spiraling.
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