Prelude: World 13

[MagicManICT]

I guess I made my joke a bit too obscure...

[snapko]

Haven's best chance at fixing its end game is to take inspiration from Eve Online. Eve is literally the only successful and lasting sandbox MMO in existence. It's because anyone can skill up a frigate character and feel useful in a couple weeks in a server that's been live for almost 2 decades. The only major progression bottleneck in Eve is wealth and that can be provided for you (enough to be useful at least) by just joining a corporation. It's playable by no-lifers, casuals, new players, and players with 5+ year old toons.

Funny part is - people who, either never played or have no idea how bad eve "end game" is, saying that devs should take inspiration from Eve Online. Ridiculous. It has literally the same issues as Haven. Chinese botters, bigger groups dominating smaller ones, issues with fozziesov sieges being bullshit... list can go on and on... ore scarcity node quality

[jock]

Haven's best chance at fixing its end game is to take inspiration from Eve Online. Eve is literally the only successful and lasting sandbox MMO in existence. It's because anyone can skill up a frigate character and feel useful in a couple weeks in a server that's been live for almost 2 decades. The only major progression bottleneck in Eve is wealth and that can be provided for you (enough to be useful at least) by just joining a corporation. It's playable by no-lifers, casuals, new players, and players with 5+ year old toons.

Funny part is - people who, either never played or have no idea how bad eve "end game" is, saying that devs should take inspiration from Eve Online. Ridiculous. It has literally the same issues as Haven. Chinese botters, bigger groups dominating smaller ones, issues with fozziesov sieges being bullshit... list can go on and on... ore scarcity node quality

i agree eve has many of the same flaws and don't actually do much to help new players other than please buy these skill injectors and then you be "useful" still need to grind that is or... plex... now your just a guy helping stuff get blown up for no real reason. As the game is not really that sandbox. Just a churn that you win by not playing.

[Astarisk]

I think havens design flaws that you touch on go deeper than just bots. Even without bots casuls with jobs are not going to compete with gangs of teenagers/jobless nolifers. The same problems would still exist, ie the game only being fun after world reset. Bots probably just excelerate it but the game needs to have fun endgame that isnt infini-grinding.

In my opinion the players who no life this have a larger impact than those who bot. I feel that people just underestimate those with a lot of free time and a good set of Google timers. As far as botting goes, it is a game of cat and mouse. Loftar could do his best to implement ways to prevent botting, then it'd be on us to figure it out and defeat it and then it would be on him to figure out they we defeated the system. It would really become more work than he could keep up with -- and that is only if you believe botting is such a huge problem to begin with.

When it comes to the talks of botting in this game most people blow it way out of proportion. Most people still believe that the Baders Bra realm was made through botting. As one of the people who personally develops a client with botting capablities, I can tell you that when it came to farming the cloth for our cairns no bots were used. I farmed our fields using loftar's area select farming -- and planted them in the same way.

( Please post the realm maps for the world loftar -- there were a lot of fun early cairn wars i'd like to see xd)

The real hidden problem with this game is the blatant exploitation by every and all factions. And I'm not talking about botting, just straight legit bugs that go unreported just to gain an edge in this game and can be world ruining. People would rather gain a competitive edge through under-handed means and this becomes much more difficult to detect than any bot. A few examples in the past can be seen through the stat exploitation at the start of w11 and the crop qualities in w12. One got caught (albeit a little too late in my opinion and the other most people probably don't even realize exists. With this game being competitive and PvP in nature we see a lot of degenerate behavior occur.

[MagicManICT]

But by all means! Keep posting about your super cool, original, ground breaking ideas to fix botting. You're all very smart and very important!

You do realise that you are complaining about people complaining about an actual issue? the fact is - its still being an issue after years.

Trimmed a lot of off-topic discussion on botting to a thread in The Inn. Try not to completely derail a thread based on a few comments. Thanks*.


*I know I'm guilty of it sometimes, too.

[shubla]

Jorb bamboozled us all, summer time comes into effect on a few days, so W13 will be actually 1 hour later in many European countries than what was initially thought!

[Kamekono]

Jorb bamboozled us all, summer time comes into effect on a few days, so W13 will be actually 1 hour later in many European countries than what was initially thought!

I hate the starting time is so late... I have to work the next morning

[Zampfeo]

Haven's best chance at fixing its end game is to take inspiration from Eve Online. Eve is literally the only successful and lasting sandbox MMO in existence. It's because anyone can skill up a frigate character and feel useful in a couple weeks in a server that's been live for almost 2 decades. The only major progression bottleneck in Eve is wealth and that can be provided for you (enough to be useful at least) by just joining a corporation. It's playable by no-lifers, casuals, new players, and players with 5+ year old toons.

Funny part is - people who, either never played or have no idea how bad eve "end game" is, saying that devs should take inspiration from Eve Online. Ridiculous. It has literally the same issues as Haven. Chinese botters, bigger groups dominating smaller ones, issues with fozziesov sieges being bullshit... list can go on and on... ore scarcity node quality

And yet, it has a daily peak of 30k players. Botting in high sec doesn't get you anywhere and botting in null sec is stupid. There's nothing inherently wrong with large groups dominating - that's the game - and isn't even a fundamental flaw in Haven. Sieges work quite well considering alternatives lesser sandbox games have come up with.

I won't pretend I'm some Eve vet, but the fact that I, as a casual player, can hop right in once a year and participate in world-altering null-sec PVP for a few weeks is evidence that the game works. I don't feel inferior to people who've got years of play time because I'm just as good at flying a cruiser as they are and, even if they're piloting a battleship, I still stand a chance against them especially with a couple friends. The only thing they have that I don't is more ISK to replace what they lose. You just can't do that in Haven. The incentives for a new or casual player are completely different in both games.

[snapko]

And yet, it has a daily peak of 30k players. Botting in high sec doesn't get you anywhere and botting in null sec is stupid. There's nothing inherently wrong with large groups dominating - that's the game - and isn't even a fundamental flaw in Haven. Sieges work quite well considering alternatives lesser sandbox games have come up with.

I won't pretend I'm some Eve vet, but the fact that I, as a casual player, can hop right in once a year and participate in world-altering null-sec PVP for a few weeks is evidence that the game works. I don't feel inferior to people who've got years of play time because I'm just as good at flying a cruiser as they are and, even if they're piloting a battleship, I still stand a chance against them especially with a couple friends. The only thing they have that I don't is more ISK to replace what they lose. You just can't do that in Haven. The incentives for a new or casual player are completely different in both games.

If I say that something is stupid, then it is and I'm right!

Its was obvious but you even said it yourself - you have no idea how the game actually works. FYI latest "world-altering" war is going on for 9 months already. Imagine playing for more than two weeks, probably that how you play Haven as well I guess... please dont bring up eve as inspiration for this game ever again, curd in beatiful wrapper is still a curd.

Having three accounts in eve for anyone who is not a grasshopper but a part of actual player base is norm and encouraged by everyone everywhere in new eden. Botting in high sec actually do get you anywhere you want, you just not aware of how. Hek, even having alts is literally "mandatory" ​for non-casual high sec pve activity if you want to earn more than equivalent of 10$ per 9 hours. If you dont feel your inferiority - it doesn't make your point right. Facts are facts, feelings are subjective. Btw, any random sprucecap in eve who is capable of pressing f1 when told is "valuable asset" join null-sec pvp

[shubla]

World altering wars in eve sound cool but then you just jump around for 2 hours most times without actual fight ever happening and maybe get to press f1 and watch a laggy slideshow where its often obvious which side is going to win beforehand already.
Small ganks with good corpmates are what the game really shines in!