Game Development: Beavertopia

[Granger]

While the idea of minor wounds being unable to kill you sounds reasonable at first, I suspect that this would just reduce the amount of fully healed characters running around as enough minor wounds would act as death preventers in this scheme. Would be kind of silly to run against the wall several times, hard, to raise your chances in the upcoming fight...



I think the game needs something that deals with the issue of
Long term character development, fun, permadeath - pick two

This is the main issue, I think, maybe not so much for the ones already settled in who have access to everything - but for many who look at H&H from the outside.

[NOOBY93]

Well as I said after that quick idea, permadeath just needs to be rid of honestly. The only argument for permadeath is "it's so hardcore and intense!!!" but after a couple of months playing the game it stops being hardcore and intense and just becomes a nuisance that encourages alting, prevents a lot of combat from happening, and makes the game boring. Eventually once a death actually happens, it's again just a nuisance.

Permadeath sounds interesting because you can personally "remove a player from the game". But in reality, the only way to remove a player from the game is to kill him in real life. Permadeath is just a huge setback for even trying to do anything fun.

[LaserSaysPew]

I think the game needs something that deals with the issue of
Long term character development, fun, permadeath - pick two

Anyone thought of "PvP idols"? Everywhere in hafen death is kinda lazy and is not really taking anyone, you tp to hf on KO, while dropping only your study table, you can't receive more than 10% of your max hp as HHP dmg on a KO hit. But there are 2 types of pvp idols that people can build. They work like realm cairns claiming some area. Inside that area: 1st idol - death exists as it is now, permanent, stat loss etc., 2nd idol(cheaper to build) - tp to hf, while losing all your inventory, no max dmg per KO hit restrictions etc. That way we can develop our chars, we can pvp outside of idol zones without risking everything, we can still rob people of some nice curios and pvp loving factions can build idols at sieges/mountains/any other highly populated or important area and gangbang people there as much as they want, fight each other etc. And permadeath is still a thing, it's just a longer path.
Did anyone suggest something like that? That's not a whole idea ofc, just a glimpse, if anyone interested(especially devs ofc), I can tell more.

[Granger]

Permadeath is just a huge setback for even trying to do anything fun.

It's also setback for these guys:

when viewed in context of comments like these:

But seriously the reason I want permadeath gone is because I want this game to succeed. Simple. I, personally, do not mind permadeath. I have played it in other games and its all good, BUT the majority of people WILL NOT play a game with permadeath.
And before you go saying that I dont know anything and there are 200 people that play this game and for 99% it is because of perma death I will explain how I came to my learned opinion....

I have been online gaming since Meridian 59 and have been a Leader or Member of many many guilds since Ultima Online. Some of those guild members I am still in touch with for over 20 years. Now the only reason I point that out is not to say how cool I am or anything but to explain the vast number of people I am in contact with regarding gaming. The guilds I am in, or converse regularly with, range in size from the teens to the hundreds.

Since starting playing Salem 3, almost 4, years ago I have been trying to get people to join me in playing.
Out of the hundreds I have tried to get to play almost every single one said no and for the same reason.... Permadeath. The general consensus among them is that permadeath is a mechanic that justs wastes your time. And these are people from Hardcore full loot PvP games as well as AAA themepark games.

(emphasis mine, slightly reformatted for easier reading, source)

[NOOBY93]

I used to be one of those preaching that permadeath is an amazing mechanic that appeals to a niche, but realistically it's just that - a waste of time.

[rainland]

Waste of time is a very vague variable imo. Someone might argue that playing games is a waste of time. Playing haven is a waste of time because it resets every year.
What do you consider a waste of time?
For me to play haven is not a waste of time (permadeath or not) it's to build your village and manage it and with it it gives me a fun time for relaxing and maxing my autism (jk).

Edit:
If I could choose I'd take death mechanic from the game seven days to die where upon death you lose some amount of your stats (in this case HHP) and the loot is determined by the server (either backpack or toolbelt or equipment or everything) but in Hafen I think would be the best to drop everything.

[NOOBY93]

Waste of time is a very vague variable imo. Someone might argue that playing games is a waste of time. Playing haven is a waste of time because it resets every year.
What do you consider a waste of time?
For me to play haven is not a waste of time (permadeath or not) it's to build your village and manage it and with it it gives me a fun time for relaxing and maxing my autism (jk).

Good point. To expand on the "waste of time":

Combat like TF2 or all other die-respawn-continue games would not be a good fit in Haven. Getting rekt in combat needs to make you not be able to fight for a while.

Now, let's assume that raising your stats from 10 to 500 is quality gameplay, but something that's only fun once. Once you reach 500, in a permadeath scenario, when you die you have to go over the whole grinding back to 500 part again, which is not fun at all. You feel no sense of progression because your stats have still not exceeded what you had before you died.

In a non-permadeath scenario, if you get rekt at 500 you have a lot of wounds that need fixing, so you can't go to fights for a while. However, while recovering you can still continue raising your stats, farming, mining and doing literally everything else with your character. You don't lose your feeling of progression, you don't waste any time repeating the 10-to-500 you already did before, you just continue playing except that you can't participate in combat until you completely heal.

This is good because: Hypothetically if you wipe the whole enemy team in a fight, they will not be able to fight back for a while despite not dying, and you're pretty much free to take any cairns or villages you want expecting no counterforce.

At the same time, the people who got wiped don't lose the will to play because of having to re-grind their stats back up to what they were.

[meus]

The new knockout mechanic seems very good. Players will be able to choose whether they want to engage in lethal PVP, and also avoid being killed after fighting an animal they're not prepared to deal with just yet

Those who like playing as hermits will have the extra protection they need, while those into lethal PVP will have their share of challenging fights - they'd need to fight more and actually fend off their enemies.

[springyb]

Do beavers have anything interesting other than their hide and meat?

[NOOBY93]

Players will be able to choose whether they want to engage in lethal PVP

What? Where did you get this from?

There's no lethal PvP.