Prelude: World 12

[SaltyCrate]

No matter if legacy veterans with rose-tinted glasses claim otherwise.

viewforum.php?f=34

So? Everyone moved to discord to discuss these matters nowadays. Also, at some point in the legacy moot turned into cancer, everybody just abandoned posting in it and did not bother since.

Everyone is PvPer.

guess why it's locked ...

Because there are still people believing otherwise who would argue endlessly and poinlessly in that thread otherwise? Or do you have some other relevant reason to tell me? If so, then feel free to.

[thomas_ewing]

While we're at it, please remove the crap mechanic of cheeserack quality affecting cheese quality. All it does is force people to spend hours bashing their setups to make a new one or heavily bot it all. It's entirely unnecessary and tedious for no reason.

In the name of Karl XVI, we need this reverted more than anything. Seriously, I'd be ok if you just removed walls and claims entirely if you reverted this too.

[boshaw]

Guess Jorb and Loftar decided 100 people online were too many and action needed to be taken.

How about you spend some time developing changes on reducing the impact of raids once they break through the walls (total obliteration of anything of value in a base currently) instead of focusing on the when and how the breaking in occurs. Perhaps then people won't be so polarized about it (raiders [all 10 of them] with a hard-on at the idea of the carnage and defenders seriously considering if its even worth playing). It's not like it's been repeatedly been suggested ever since we got walls. Was it 10 years ago? But that would mean too much work and who wants to work eh. Carry on.

This. Please consider redirecting your hate boner against players to coming up with ways to make raids not entirely binary outcomes. There's absolutely no fun in watching a faction larger than you with more resources basically get to wipe out your entire base, potentially including the idol, kilns, smelters, etc. All of which could be high quality and have taken weeks or months to gather mats for. Until this is done easy raiding will never ever ever be fun or good for the population of this game. The last thing players should have to do is come up with inane base designs that abuse dozens and dozens of archery towers or walls to the max just to delay an 8h ram fest.

[ffsfiftyseven]

Everyone here seems to claim they are part and representatives of core demographics of the game. Well, i guess i'm not.
I'm playing for half a year tops after the world reset, just like any estimated amount of players based on ~thousand online players difference (between the start of the world and midway until the reset). I enjoy the game for what separates it from mobile farming game - the thrill of unexplored world and dangers that come with it.
Do we matter? Should developers try to appeal to us and stop us from abandoning the game until the new reset? I've got no clue, but at least do not forget we exist every half (third? quarter?) of the world's lifespan, so there's that.

What personally matters to me is the sense of danger coming from the outside. When you are potentially vulnerable you are trying to come up with contingency plan. If i can build this thing and that thing in that way and noone has realistic chance to siege my shitty village i lose the sense of danger and game becomes a bit stale. Maybe i quit because of that staleness, maybe i don't - but the thrill weakens so there's that.
If my neighbours understand they can build in the same way to completely block off any siege they lose at least one reason to even communicate with me. Making sure someone nearby is not a threat is off the table.
The reasoning is very basic. If someone does not share this viewpoint they can atleast understand it.
That's why i, the casual part-time player with no intent to participate in PvP, think the PvP and sieging are both very healthy for this game. And any kind of flag toggle to "opt-out" of those scary things are actually terrible - i will optimize the fun out of the game by protecting myself by any means necessary and so will you.

Now, realistically, lets imagine the new siege system with some added cost to checking the claim's state. Maybe this action is considered criminal, leaves a scent and prevents logging out for a duration so you cannot get an alt full of resources to log in - check - log out without a trace and any clue from claim's owner.
This "checking" action gives other party some information. Let's assume the least possible amount of information: current claim level and current state of charging (either it's charging or it's not).
I am also assuming claim owner can see some sort of "checking log" and come on, even if it's not there we all will automate it if we at least get a message when the claim is getting checked.

What's the scenario here, assuming they didn't hit jackpot checking when the claim is weak? Worst case scenario i'm being checked at the end of decay cycle, so i'm down to level 4 and 2 full weeks to prepare. Best case i have 4 weeks of the same level of protection (5 and 4), presumably without a way for attacker to successfuly siege me. Yes, i imagine the scenario when noone will bother with 32h drying time. So 2 to 4 weeks of calling for help, relocating, trying to figure out who scared me and negotiate. Sounds not that bad! If they did hit the weakness interval, well, life sucks. Maybe that's the worst thing about the new system. But still there can be some ideas to prevent that.

What's better i decide when i want to hit "charge" button. And until i do hostile party is forced to walk up to my walls and spend resources to check the claim status. Maybe i decide to wait 2 more weeks? Soak times go down sure, but they are still very considerable and it will drain even more resources from the enemy, giving me even more time. 4 to 6 weeks of trying to come up with something.
Hell, i think any casual player can relocate by then! Even if you have lots and lots of animals it's very plausible. And if you don't want to relocate because you sitting on great resource nodes maybe its the whole point of sieging you? To make you relocate because you are weak and stronger players want the best spot? Even then you can gamble and charge getting 6 more weeks of attrition for your enemy. By then you either relocate, negotiate with your enemies or find some 3rd party willing to protect you.

I can only speculate how the system will look for major factions but my guess is more or less the same, with an added factor of traitors/spies. Which is great, no?

Anyway i can't see myself quitting the game because of new siege system. Maybe major factions can raid my village with 32h drying timers, but it was possible in earlier worlds and never happened - who in the right mind will do that to a small player group? And if they are looking for an opening, i still have advantage on my side and some options to consider. Most probably no-one will ever attack me anyway, but the danger is out there - which is good - and i'm inclined to actually engage with my neighbours to plan ahead in case of scary raiders coming for my sprucecap.

[bmjclark]

Just posting again. These siege changes make you no more vulnerable than you currently are if you bother to double layer your base with 2 seperate villages. The only outcome from this siege change is that every noob who doesn't realize you should do that is going to be vulnerable for 8 hours every 2-4 weeks to getting pretty much completely removed from the game.

[Neon14]

In my experience, the people who are against "losing 8 months of work in an hour" are the same people who spiral, then hoard, then quit.

I've always understood utter loss and unfairness to be a core component of this game, it being permadeath. It's a survival game, after all, why should staying alive as it is now, be so easy?

There's nothing impressive or enjoyable to me, at least, in gaining 800 or more of a stat/quality and it never having meaning, no real use. It's just numbers. I've seen that what tends to make me, or other players, cling to their character or items is having it for too long. I've ended up bored or quitting the game numerous times because there is no value in any of the items or stats anymore. There is no risk of losing the items, or character.

I wish there was. I wish the hearthlands were dangerous enough that I could try my hardest and end up dying a month or less in. That would make what I had valuable, and motivate me to try again. As it is now, you play, and you inevitably succeed...but at what? You create the best gear, have the highest quality items, have a titan character...and then you quit, because having these things doesn't make you want to play the game over and over, it's the PvP, Trade, and other player interaction (larpers lol) that give these items their value that makes you want to play again, but these game features are so choked it's difficult to find enjoyment in the game.

Siege has to be a reality for PvP to exist outside of meteors (not frequent enough).
PvP has to exist to give items purpose and value. I've never thought of this game as Stardew Valley. Even Minecraft has PvP.
Trade exists only when items have purpose and value.
And larpers can only larp if there's people playing the game to larp with.

Excited for this new world with (most) of the changes here. 8 hours of vulnerability every 2 weeks is nothing, and the people who think thats something too hard to accomplish are playing the wrong game. I'd bet most of you have been spending 8 hours on the weekends raiding on WoW since you were in diapers.

Just please make the map smaller, a thriving game isn't 100 hermits supergrids apart raising their turnip quality to 900. A smaller map would further encourage interaction/pvp.

Thank you

[AriZona]

The whole issue is that siege is based entirely on wrong premise, because attackers do not loose much compared (idea was already spoken) and imbalance of its mechanics. FIX: Siege has two aspects of mechanics - physical and authority. A) Physical = Wrecking equipment should be put/balanced against other physicals - walls, archer towers. B) Authority = Attackers have to exceed v/p claim authority by their own village authority x3 or more times. If attacker does not have vclaim authorities, the balances has to be subtracted from skills points and LPs of involved attackers. Now we have balance.

Other:

Instead introducing new fancy convoluted siege mechanics, devs could fix potters clay. Now it is useless knickknack with its own full credo.

Make authority drain severe from claimed resources

[infectedking]

Can we just get back the world10 siege system and work on it from there? This new system sounds pretty shit from what i've been reading tbh.

[pimotimo]

Can you imagine i only fought ants twice but nothing else the whole w11 ... ok it's a video game but honestly i'm troubled by the misconception of hunting should be card deck combat. Ok at least they fixed marksmanship ...

As to your kill count, to be fair I suppose no one would be surprised.

Nonetheless the card deck combat is absolutely disgusting and I miss how in legacy there were like 20 special moves, there was a balance and a fight intensity system.
At the beginning of the fight everything was slower as the fight was at 0 intensity, thus giving you time to think about your next move, while currently you're instantly fighting, little to no time to plan anything.
Same goes to balance, there were tons of special moves, that could change the balance stat making you hit harder than your opponent, even if he had higher stats than you. Watch your balance, or get hit hard.

These two systems made the stats difference less apparent, and even hermits had at least more chance to escape when found in the wilderness.

I repeat once again, bring back the good old legacy combat.

Why dont we have legacy combat if it was so good? why it had to be removed then? I played legacy but I never pvp'ed much there

[wonder-ass]

This. Please consider redirecting your hate boner against players to coming up with ways to make raids not entirely binary outcomes. There's absolutely no fun in watching a faction larger than you with more resources basically get to wipe out your entire base, potentially including the idol, kilns, smelters, etc. All of which could be high quality and have taken weeks or months to gather mats for. Until this is done easy raiding will never ever ever be fun or good for the population of this game. The last thing players should have to do is come up with inane base designs that abuse dozens and dozens of archery towers or walls to the max just to delay an 8h ram fest.

exactly.