Divine Intervention: The Case of Core vs ST & CotTK

[Kaios]

Surely the forum moderators are an acceptable sample population for the game's player base. We all know that users who are banned from the forums or are serial shitposters never play the game or engage in PVP activities.

The way the game's community is moderated results in all the bad shit being swept under the rug so the community can be blissful or orderly or whatever excuse there is. It's just like the Rotherham rapes being covered up in the UK. Surely if you hide all your problems, they don't exist.

I've been a player and normal user on this forum 1000x longer than I have been a moderator, I am part of a major faction and I successfully discovered and reported a wall jump bug without using or abusing it in any sort of manner.

You guys are being ridiculous if you think that Jorb and Loftar need to set any sort of precedent for players who fall victim to these bugs that they will have their items, villages or players restored. How exactly would that give incentive to players to report them more often when they know who ever they use them on will just get their stuff restored anyways, and if they did, does that still make it right to then "salt the earth" of the ones who used the bug?

Why don't you just go and be pro-active and search for these bugs if you're so worried about them, any you find and report is one less to be abused. Or are you telling me you are dumber than both myself and Headshot plus other russian dudes that seem to find them without much trouble.

[jorb]

Protip: People are going to create alt accounts with new IPs and abuse walljumps anyways just to fuck with people. The lack of loot is no deterrent.

Try learning from your mistakes and, like magic, you don't have to put up with shit like this.

Your attitude is such undiluted shit that words cannot begin to describe.

This was not a bug we had had before.

Wall jumps of this character are extreme edge cases that are hard to predict.

Being aware of the general problem does not preclude the particulars of it.

There will doubtlessly be other security related bugs. All we can do is try to fix them.

This is not me lashing out because I am angry. I am not angry, because, again, variable game data does not matter to me. I could wipe the game tomorrow and not shed a tear. I am not angry, but on the contrary simply without passion doing a little thing for those for whom variable game data does matter, and -- vox populi, vox dei -- the level of appreciation is through the god-damned-roof. We don't get this good feedback even when we deliver otherwise appreciated patches.

The people who abused this bug had no regard whatsoever for fairness. Why should I? I shouldn't, and I don't. I don't care about "fairness", and do not really pretend to uphold it. This is simply my will, and if it in the eyes of some beholders happens to be fair then I can only be glad about that, however incidental it is. Haven is not a democratic republic.

It does not make me angry that there are bugs, that people find them, that people try to find them, or that they get exploited. This is the natural order of things.

I realize fully that this may cause people to carry out exploits bei Nacht und Nebel, and that's a fine little game of cat and mouse. That will certainly make it a fair bit harder to profit from these bugs, harder to use developed characters with stable production bases in abusing them, at the very least, and it's not like we'll never catch people. This time the thing was extremely clear cut, and we caught a whole bunch. I am pleased.

Your argument is something like "well, it doesn't matter, because people will now use alts instead". Ok, fine. If it doesn't matter that I wiped this village, then why are you here sulking about it? Of course it hurt, and I have several salty PMs to prove it.

I grow very weary of you.

[crfernald]

You guys are being ridiculous if you think that Jorb and Loftar need to set any sort of precedent for players who fall victim to these bugs that they will have their items, villages or players restored. How exactly would that give incentive to players to report them more often when they know who ever they use them on will just get their stuff restored anyways, and if they did, does that still make it right to then "salt the earth" of the ones who used the bug?

What? I agree with that completely. That's why I had to tell jorb to check his cuckold privilege and turn his brain on.

I'm saying that there should be no punishment or restoration and that this is to be expected from the players.

[Kaios]

That was more towards Arvin because he wanted a response regarding his posts too, I'm fine with punishment especially when it's the same guys always doing this shit.

[jorb]

I'm saying that there should be no punishment or restoration and that this is to be expected from the players.

There will indeed be no punishment for the people who rained brimstone over Core.

There will indeed be no restorations for the people in Core.

Why do you pretend that I am somehow a force outside of the game who has no right to interfere in it?

I chose not to interfere because I do not like to. Sometimes I like to.

[Tonkyhonk]

Well, you saw the screenie from the russian forum, unless that is just hot air, attitudes haven't changed much.

yes i did, i even got anon to translate that for me and laughed so hard with rawrz. they dont realize irc chat op is a completely different management and has got nothing to do with the moderation team in the official forums, so yeah, hail rawrz! fear him! it sure made clear that portgas knows a bit better than these guys.

anyways, my point is that lots of people feel nostalgic about the earlier days of haven, and so do i (though i only know enough up to w3), but it also feels like just yesterday too. and this bagousing threat would start sounding like nostalgic too sooner or later no matter their attitudes. im just hoping this nostalgic feeling come sooner.

i posted the log not really as a warning, but more like because Headshot really sounded like he wanted some attentions so badly. he actually enjoyed the fact that i posted it, and complimented as a good job right after i posted it, even asked me to forward it to devs to make sure they read it too. sometimes its okay to give a kiddo the attention he craves.

[crfernald]

I'm salty.

It's not that I'm sulking because it changes nothing. I'm just here to point out that nothing changes, regardless of how much good feedback you get from making people that a lot of users hate salty. Again, we have selective feedback in a good versus evil paradigm. If you showed up and nuked my house you'd probably get baskets of fruit in the mail, but that does nothing to develop the game in any meaningful way.

Are you really growing weary of me or are you growing weary of the fact that people point out that more often than not your solutions to problems incurred in game ultimately do not change outcomes like you desire, as in the case of botting, alt accounts, bagousing, etc. I could be more cordial, but the fact is that my manners seem to have no correlation with the outcome of my thoughts, much like your fixes don't correlate with fixing things.

I'd genuinely like to see fixes to alts, botting, et al. I don't think I ever will though. Walljumps were expected, and just like in W5, I think it's silly for anyone to get upset or do anything about it really. You fixing the bug was great and everything, but again, coming back to outcomes, the punishment will not prevent people from doing it in the future.

[jorb]

If you showed up and nuked my house you'd probably get baskets of fruit in the mail, but that does nothing to develop the game in any meaningful way.

Do you think that I believe otherwise? I can only agree fully. I would, indeed, much rather have spent my Saturday doing something constructive. This took a lot of time and was essentially a waste of that same resource.

If this were a bug that, say, had been used against me personally, and me only, then nothing would most likely have happened.

[ArvinJA]

I would, indeed, much rather have spent my Saturday doing something constructive.

"Destruction is also creation" - Marcel Duchamp, LSD Autist

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

I would, indeed, much rather have spent my Saturday doing something constructive.

"Destruction is also creation" - Marcel Duchamp, LSD Autist

Wow dude, you never caught me as the shitposting type but you've really been stepping up your game lately