Game Development: Prelude

[Grable]

Pretty awful overall, if you ask me.

Stat cap: Good! Maybe this'll force more action from people and not just sitting behind brickwalls. It also makes coming back a bit less painful. I doubt many people want a win in combat meaning the guy has put more time into grinding rather than actual combat skill. Skill > time input. So stat cap is a good way to do that, though it does feel slightly low.
BUT!
You need to make the game more fun. The game simply isn't fun, it's absolutely boring. Once you have a level/stat cap you NEED to make something endgame-ish, something worth fighting/exploring for that isn't just random killings and raids in the wild.

Stat cap behind a paywall: I hope you're fucking kidding here, this IS pay2win (or freemium, whatever). Paywalled time was bad already, but this is far worse. Personally I didn't feel the effects of paywalled time because the game was too boring to even put in more than 14 hours per week. There are so many better ways to monetize a game like this.

You need to do more meaningful changes (mostly to siege) before a world resets, if you ask me, but other than that I'm pretty indifferent on the world reset anyway, not playing anymore and all.
What surprises me the most you keep asking for meaningful feedback on the stuff you implement and on ideas on how to approach certain game systems in this thread ('well then tell us how we should do it'), it makes me think you skip reading most suggestions from players in other threads OR are way too picky.

For example, here are my suggestions in previous weeks/months (with little to no feedback from you):
How to approach a siege system
Make foraging more fun
Make hunting more fun
Options for cash shop instead of pay2play

As well as all the suggestions that other players wrote, ESPECIALLY when it comes to how siegeing should be done. So I'm kind of baffled how you guys are still 'in the dark' about how to approach a siege system.

In the end I think that the player count is low because the game is boring, not because of the payment model as you guys think. I'm basing this on my own observations of why I and my friends quit. None of them really complained about limited hours, they quit because the game got boring. Fate system is a disaster, there's little incentive to go out and explore, curio system is simply not fun and feels like a chore, combat is prediction rather than reaction based, to name a few things.

[APXEOLOG]

Does stat cap affects only stats (STR/AGI/etc) or skills too? (Melee/UA/...)

So, any confirmed information about it?

[Archiplex]

pay2win

People seem to have a serious misconception of what pay2win actually means

You're not buying any immediate benefits at all, by throwing money at the game you're not instantly better than those who spend their time and go into it earnestly

The difference now is that once the game reaches the stage where everyone is above that 50 skill area, to keep with them you'll need to actually sub- it's more like a trial to the game for everything below 50 and still moderately weak

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and many other games have done it, and in absolutely no way is it pay2win

[Grable]

pay2win

People seem to have a serious misconception of what pay2win actually means

You're not buying any immediate benefits at all, by throwing money at the game you're not instantly better than those who spend their time and go into it earnestly

The difference now is that once the game reaches the stage where everyone is above that 50 skill area, to keep with them you'll need to actually sub- it's more like a trial to the game for everything below 50 and still moderately weak

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and many other games have done it, and in absolutely no way is it pay2win

You have to pay monthly to have 4x the stats you would otherwise have (50 -> 200). Seems pretty pay2win to me. Or ok, if we're being strict with the definiton of pay2win, I'll call it freemium. Aka forced subscription unless you want to walk around with your char with shitty stats and do what... explore the world? Or dig dirt? how fun

[Fenume]

People seem to have a serious misconception of what pay2win actually means

Agree. This is not pay2win, this is "pay or lose".

[Archiplex]

pay2win

People seem to have a serious misconception of what pay2win actually means

You're not buying any immediate benefits at all, by throwing money at the game you're not instantly better than those who spend their time and go into it earnestly

The difference now is that once the game reaches the stage where everyone is above that 50 skill area, to keep with them you'll need to actually sub- it's more like a trial to the game for everything below 50 and still moderately weak

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and many other games have done it, and in absolutely no way is it pay2win

You have to pay monthly to have 4x the stats you would otherwise have (50 -> 200). Seems pretty pay2win to me. Or ok, if we're being strict with the definiton of pay2win, I'll call it freemium. Aka forced subscription unless you want to walk around with your char with shitty stats and do what... explore the world? Or dig dirt? how fun

If you haven't realized J/L want to turn it into a monetized game, and they don't have the resources to go around making cosmetics for every other item when there's so much else to be done

A stat cap still has the idea where all free players are on a sort of "trial", except this time they don't feel like all of their time is absolutely wasted if they aren't being 100% productive, and can have a very nice place established before they ever even NEED to sub

Subbing is just for those who want to go above and beyond and reach the highest peak of power they can get, and it's not an issue in the least bit.

[MAMA]

pay2win

People seem to have a serious misconception of what pay2win actually means

You're not buying any immediate benefits at all, by throwing money at the game you're not instantly better than those who spend their time and go into it earnestly

The difference now is that once the game reaches the stage where everyone is above that 50 skill area, to keep with them you'll need to actually sub- it's more like a trial to the game for everything below 50 and still moderately weak

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and many other games have done it, and in absolutely no way is it pay2win

And can do it you don't want to admit to yourself what from players start extorting money by more sophisticated method? There is a real opportunity to bend those who isn't ready to donatit monthly. P2W in pure form.
Game and so boring was, and now will be as all others around.

[pimotimo]

I like the skill cap idea, would like to see how it goes. Maybe add a higher cap tho? like 300? good stuff overall, loving the new graphics

ps: to the ppl complaining about "i just paid for a subscription and now its useless" you guys are paying to support the game, and should be happy about jorbtar work.

[Grable]

Subbing is just for those who want to go above and beyond and reach the highest peak of power they can get

So pretty much everyone? Why else do you think people play this game, most of them to get high stats and go PvP or do something endgame. 'Highest peak of power' don't make me laugh. 50 is no power compared to 250 aka all the power. If you think it's not an issue then you're thinking way too narrow - I'm getting this free trial and then what? If I want to do something meaningful apart from digging dirt or stuff that doesn't require stats at all and keep progressing I have to buy a sub.. 15$ a month for this boring shit? Yeah lol no thanks. That's the full price for a lot of VERY good games these days, or the full price for an AAA released MMORPG. Not a fucking alpha game that has so many unresolved and unfinished systems.

There's a very fine difference between reaching endgame stats not as fast as the paying user (aka previous, time limited system), or not reaching endgame stats AT ALL (current payment model).

[Kalacia]

OK, firstly ill start by saying... I got to page 10 before I fell to my urge to post. So if I’ve missed something important... ill read it later and post again maybe. If you have followed me over the past few weeks of me getting back into Hafen, I have had a lot of ideas. I think ive made 3 posts, plus a few in other threads. This will be me trying to give ideas and argue against level caps based on sub level. And ways for devs to make some money. (I expect some hate on my ideas, but these are just ideas. I’m open to discussion or to be told I’m wrong)

I’ll start by saying, I’m not against paying for the game... I agree the current payment system isn’t great, but I think the “new” one is worse.

I don’t like the idea of level caps based on money, it divides the game population and could easily bring in a discriminatory ideal. "Oh you can only join our village if you are a subber", or "this village is only for lvl 50s".... anything that can divide a player base by their real world qualities or culture is a bad idea. (yes I accept there are still cretins in the world who subjugate on skin colour and gender etc, but this is not within devs control)

I had the idea the other day of classes, or at least a skill path. I was going to spend some brain time thinking about it... maybe I’ll spend more time sooner and get a cohesive ideal out in the next few days. maybe later today...
Personally... I liked the ‘idea’ of game time and its refresh, but the step up to a sub didn't seem... as valuable. I would have liked this system to be built upon.
Maybe allow players to buy permanent bolt-ons to their game, and get rewards for the amount of time they played (while subbed).
Ideas for account bolt ons or one off payments (I know some already exist)
a. Have playtime measured monthly, to bring it in line with a monthly sub model. This would allow players to compare subs with playtime easier.
b. Allow players to “refil” their play time once a month for a less than a month’s sub (one off payment, gets no sub benefits)
c. Players can buy items that attach to account that give none game effecting bonus, such as an emote
d. Account upgrade (same as buying the game) increases game time. Get a nice hat with a boast animation or something.
e. Limit same account alts, but allow people to pay a SMALL amount to increase the amount of alts. The max limit would apply to sub accounts.(if a person unsubs, their first login they will be prompted to pick a single char to play)
f. Give people the option to pay for game time in blocks. Say in blocks of 6/12/24 (easily multiplied and divided). You could then easily have a sale on these to boost up none subbers revenue.
Ideas/rewards for people who sub
a. Players who sub can make a character with better customisation. diff colour hair, beards, hair styles, diff walk style etc
b. New characters who sub get a little boost. Maybe start off with a curio or two, a hand axe. Just something to take the edge off the first hour or so of game play.
c. As long as you are subbed, and your first claim is under a certain size… it will not decay.
d. Some new, NONE GAME MECHANIC EFFECTING items. EG black steel. Just makes things made with steel look black.
e. Players who sub after char creation or want to change their look again can make items to change their appearance.
f. Give players who sub, world changing events to participate in. Yes non subs can participate and get the “world” rewards , but they won’t get account level rewards.(Lets say one update a god wants to add a 10% debuff to LP gain for a week. The world builds altars, or conducts rituals to stop it. Subbers get a forum badge, as well as a boast emote or whatever. AND gets a +10% LP buff for a week… where the free player would just get a 10% buff.)
g. If subbers play over the end of the world they get an LP buff or a little “reincarnated” package to start with.
h. Allow subbers when making a new character to start loosely in a terrain type, or with a certain population density within a supergrid.

This could bring in more subbers, as you are giving them/us more than just play time. Hell, give the subbers now a special gift before this gets implemented for being an early adopter.
This system would not discriminate towards free players. As really, the game mechanics are the same for everyone. Yes subbers get shiny shit. But that’s the model a lot of MMOs go down.
As I said above I dislike player/character subjugation based on if they can/will pay or not. Either make it free, or make it 100% clear that you have 1 month of X hours of FREE time as a demo, and that’s it. Wham! Gone after the month… want to refill… Pay to refill, pay to sub or buy.

Ill end this on a more personal note. Ive been dipping in and out of this game since I started (2010), popping back in to be a hermit or help a village every world or so before moving on again. Im not sure i would do this if there were pay caps. Total caps, i can eat... caps based on payment... meh