Game Development: Prelude

[Granger]

A thought about the altar: since it is bit on the expensive side (so it most likely won't be used for griefing) my suggestion would be that in case you keep them available in next worlds the effect to lower the soak of walls should be a function of range (like 1000 tiles from the altar the effect ends). Reasoning is that in case you want to end the world you'll be reachable, but the ones who don't want the world to end won't be easily griefable by rendering their walls null and void. Should also only be possible to build the Altar above ground.

I am pointing out that there won't be that many people willing to play to actually see the outcomes of the decision. We cannot see any reliable information on pvp right now, bc noone is doing it. Or politics. Not enough people.

Possibly because some faction(s) slaughtered them all into ragequits just for the lulz?

Was it a bug witch copper this world? Why it was more rare then gold? Would it be fixed in any way next world?

I don't know, tbh. In the debug data I've been looking at, it isn't even that rare. I have yet to investigate closer, but will obviously have to do so.

If you have the option to visualize distribution: it may just cluster somewhere.
Like current distribution of wealth in real life: average looks great, but median sucks completely.

Mining should get a change IMHO: smaller veins and ores (especially lower yield ones) should fall back to nuggets or specles instead of giving smelters full of gneiss. Also some mechanic is needed to break cave tiles that are to hard (like heating them with a fire and the cooling them with a bucket of water to crack them), it is no fun to drop a minehole just to find out that you need to eat another 50 bears and somehow obtain a q100 pick, thanes, cape and talisman to be able to mine there. Also it should be impossible to (with mentioned gear and enough bears eaten) fill your inventory with water and bangers and then walk through the void in level 5 for a supergrid, leaving a tunnel.

Technicalities are just a facade, but when it comes down to it, a free to play player who has played for a year versus a verified/subscribed player who has played just as long, sub will always have higher stats.

Hence why we refer to it as Pay2Win, because you cant reach your maximum potential unless you pay.

Nope, since stats and attributes are a function of how much food and curios you stuff into the toon, and that (in the current model) has nothing to do with subscription or not. Might be a different thing if you view it that you have to produce the stuff yourself as a hermit, but your statement is false for a character inside a functioning village.

Also, how about making the stat caps different for different stats depending on a new form of personal beliefs? Nature/Industry moving points between farming/dex and smithing/strenght, etc. I think capping q rather than farming/smelting output wouldn't be as restrictive and force people to make nature/industry alts.

Please not. In case we have to decide between this and that with a character we're back to alts.

Limiting characters per account based on pay might also be something to consider as well.

This would only work in case there is a limit on accounts - which currently, since you can create freemail boxes by the dozend, isn't.

About caps:
For a perpetual world to work we need limits to how high numbers (stuff quality, stats, attributes) can grow, so I'm fine with experiments on caps.
One way to limit endless growth could be that you can't eat your attributes higher than the quality (times a multiplier, which should be a low single-digit) of the food you eat. And in case you eat lower quality (or don't gain certain attributes for a while) they could even shrink back over time. For this food (basically the crops) quality should be tied into the resource qualities, so q1k carrots can't happen anymore. q300+ bears should not exist, and high quality ones should be way harder to kill than default ones (with a way to find out before initiating combat, preferably without the need for sacrificial alts).
Abilities could have an upkeep cost associated with them, so they can't get out of hand (like commodos botted char from w7 did), thus would also auto-cap, but please in a way that pure UA/MC builds are not cheaper than balanced ones.

About payment and pay2play:
Please fix the problem that you only support PayPal(sucks.com), since that dosn't work for everyone.
I think your current offer was extremely generous toward freeloaders, and any of them who complain about that not being enough deserve to not get anything free at all. I propose a system that you sell subscription with the current rates, starting with the 3 month package (removing the 1-month one), rename the gametime token to subscription token and price it 10€. Then introduce a real gametime tokens (in various sizes) that boil down to something around 0.1€ per online hour. Do away with weekly refills, keep the free 48h to a new account (should be enough to try the game) but hardcap everything it touches to its skills. Scan for bots, nuke them and their villages till they glow and then shoot them in the dark.

[Kalacia]

I propose a system that you sell subscription with the current rates, starting with the 3 month package (removing the 1-month one),.

Ill be honest... i dont pay for any MMO for 3 month stints. The only one i did was the new final fantasy, i played it for a 2 months (one was free with the game) and then stopped playing.

[Pan_w_okularach]

so after 7(8? 9?) years of this game being about unlimited progression let's just decide out of the fucking BLUE to make it capped
this is exactly the type of desicion that drives old players away

[Granger]

I propose a system that you sell subscription with the current rates, starting with the 3 month package (removing the 1-month one),.

Ill be honest... i dont pay for any MMO for 3 month stints. The only one i did was the new final fantasy, i played it for a 2 months (one was free with the game) and then stopped playing.

If you read on you'll notice that I suggested to turn the gametime token into a subscription token (so the name reflects what it does) giving you one month for the same price as the 1-month subscription costs now. So nothing would change for you.

this is exactly the type of desicion that drives old players away

Which could be a good thing, because new players usually don't feel to be that entitled like many of the old ones here that played for free over the years.

[AngelaM]

We've been developing, and here's what's new.



This Monday we started working on the map generator, and as of yesterday it generates coherent river systems...!

What I'm saying is that we feel that the time has come to do a World Reset, and here's why:

• Fix some bugs discovered in the map generator and generally improve upon it one iteration. Coherent rivers, stalagmites in caves, cave halls, water in caves, some localized resources, &c.
• Significantly reduce the size of the world with the new map.
• Clear out and set straight the metal quality values from the Cuck-Hombre patch.
• Run an experiment with level caps.
• Change the payment model.

Originally we had hoped to have a better Siege paradigm in place before moving on to a new world, but as we are still somewhat in the dark on how to best proceed with that, and as we have some ideas related to the reset which affect siege, we figure that we might as well move on, as this world seems to have otherwise run its course in many ways.

Payment Model & Level Caps
-----------------------
We have for some time been dissatisfied with the payment model, and the incentives it creates, chiefly in that it makes players look at the clock and count the hours they spend in the game. Increasingly we have felt that this isn't fun, against the grain of the game otherwise, and I would wager a guess that it reflects in the user numbers. Our intention when creating the model was that subscription should be more or less optional, but in hindsight, that hasn't been the case, and that isn't as it should be.

What we want to do instead is to, rather than limit player time spent in the game, limit player ability. We, thus, want to introduce three ingame levels of level caps to both player stats and qualities -- 50, 125, and 200 -- corresponding to free play, verified account, and subscribed account.

We looked around at some other, similar MMOs, and this model seems to be closer to what others are doing. When we first contemplated limiting player skill, back when we first implemented the payment system, we decided against this solution, as it seemed to "sell power", or whatever, which we didn't want to do. It has since occurred to us, however, that the most important resource a player has at his disposal is his own time and effort spent in the game -- power -- for which reason we now instead feel that we do not want to limit time spent in the game. Character ability in game is, arguably, much less important, as most qualitative goals in the game can be reached with very low stats, and this model also allows a new player unlimited time in the game to derp around and decide whether it's fun or not, hang out with friends, try it out indefinitely, or simply skip subscribing a month, but still play, if money is tight, or whatever. The solution also "taxes", hopefully, the right people, i.e. those who take the game far too seriously for their own good, and play it competitively, or at a high level, while others can play relatively unmolested, which hopefully makes it more attractive to invite new people, and such like.

The present payment system also has the added drawback of appearing needy when spamming the player with messages about how he/she is running out of time, and, well, we don't want to be needy, and would, upon reflection, rather sell you comforts inside the bar, than charge you at the door.

Level caps are as such a thing that has been widely touted in some of the discussions we've had on the game, and some seem to imagine that removing the infini-grind would lead to a healthier game climate in various ways. We ourselves frankly doubt this, but there are at least enough unpredictabilities in it that we want to run the experiment, and what better time than now to try it out.

Correspondingly, we think that the shift between worlds is also the time to change the payment model.

The End of the World
-----------------------
In order to not let a good crisis go to waste, we have decided to, instead of simply resetting the world, let you guys do it.

Or not. If you don't want to.

• Added Altar of Ruin. Build an Altar of Ruin, and sacrifice yourself upon it. Your character will stand prostrate before the black void of the beyond, as the altar becomes active, and begins sucking life from the world.
• Two weeks after an Altar of Ruin goes active, the world will end, and a new one be generated.
• Only one Altar may be active at any given time.
• While a player stands upon an Altar of Ruin, any other player may attempt to take his place by challenge. Whoever wins the challenge -- has the higher sum of base attributes -- becomes or remains the sacrificial lamb upon the altar, while the loser simply dies.
• Whoever remains standing upon the Altar when the world ends, will be the victor of the world, and receive a statue in his or her name, to be carried across future worlds.
• As soon as the first player sacrifices himself upon the altar, and the altar becomes active, all other players, and new characters from then on, will receive an experience informing them that the world is about to end.
• While an Altar is active, you may craft a Cruel Lodestone. The Cruel Lodestone can be used to guide you to the Altar, and to find out how much time is left until the world ends.
• If the Altar is destroyed, the world-ending process is aborted, quite simply.
• The altar has a maximum cap -- 1500 -- on how much damage it can take, before it needs to cool off for 8 hours, before it again becomes destructible.
• The last 12 hours before the world ends, the altar will be possible to destroy without cooldowns.
• The altar has 50000 HP, and 5 soak.
• The altar itself cannot be claimed, and nor can claims be extended over it.
• Thus: The idea is that you can damage the altar for some amount, and perhaps even destroy it, if no one is guarding it, in the two weeks leading up to the final 12 hours. In the final 12 hours of the world I then hope to see a good slaughter fest around the altar, as people fight around it to destroy, protect, or to challenge the reigning King-of-the-Hill Ritualist.
• The soak of all walls, globally, is gradually reduced from baseline to zero, over the course of the final week of the world, i.e. from (full soak) one week after the altar was first activated to (no soak) when the world ends. Chaos and slaughter hopefully ensues.

Incidentally, we figure we need about two weeks to fix all the stuff we want for the next world, so if you get cracking on this right away, we'll hopefully be ready when you are.

If no one is up for playing this game with us -- the altar is not free -- I guess we'll reconsider our options. If people are having fun fighting over altars I wouldn't mind letting the world actually run its course until someone does manage to trigger the end, but if everyone is bored and hates us I suppose we'll just reset anyway. Y'all's call, really.

Whether we keep this mechanic around for the next world depends on how it plays out, of course.

Sketches and Subscription tokens
-----------------------

• With this patch it becomes possible to put subscription tokens (back) into a Hearthfire, regardless of whether you bought, stole, or traded for the tokens. Any subscription tokens in your Hearthfire when the world ends will carry over to the next world. Any subscription tokens lost in the game world when the world ends, are forfeit.
• All Sketches bought in this world will be redistributed to those who purchased them, and be available again in your Hearthfire in the next world.
• With the world reset we will change how sketches work. Any player will, in the next world, be able to craft a pattern using the game determined materials for it, while a Sketch from the store will allow you to create patterns without that hassle.
• Any active subscriptions will, of course, be unaffected by the end of the world, quite simply.

It'll in any event be a while until the reset actually happens, so feel free to throw any and all reasonable feedback, concerns, thoughts and questions at us, until then, and we'll try to modify the plan to take reasonable feedback into account. I assume there'll be a lot of mixed emotions about this, and we want to be as considerate as we can.

Enjoy, or tear us to shreds, whichever seems appropriate!

For those who actually paid for the subscriptions, religiously, We as a collective group, would like to see compensation for this, in the form of points and or tokens. You should have a record of payments. So let's say, you made 1 subscription payment you should receive 10 points. With these points we should be able to go to the store and purchase special perks like: A cow = 1 point, A nice House = 5 points, Staring with a claim 20 points, Keeping your Character at level 30 points and so forth. This way you are again thanking those who invested their Time and Money and keeping you somewhat employed. Thanks.

[proknah]

I like the idea of capping stats, it's good for casual players, bad for hardcore players or botting players.
Some of my friends don't want to join the game, because there is always a chance of meeting a player you stand no chance against. I know that even with caps this chance will still be out there, but it will be much less likely.
UO had stat caps and it was good.

[Granger]

[Pay2Win fantasies]
Thanks.

No, thanks. No Pay2Win, which is what your ideas boil down to (stuff giving ingame advantage for money).

[Pan_w_okularach]

Which could be a good thing, because new players usually don't feel to be that entitled like many of the old ones here that played for free over the years.

as if there are tons of new players

[Granger]

Which could be a good thing, because new players usually don't feel to be that entitled like many of the old ones here that played for free over the years.

as if there are tons of new players

Usually a new world leads to regained interest, since you see a level field.
An old world where you have a chance to catch up to characters existing from the beginning should also be more inviting.

[Valkoria]

Hello Jorb and Loftar. I don't post on the forms very frequently, honestly I really only check the forums for patch notes since I'm always looking forward to more content (honestly it's one of the biggest things I look forward to every week) and I'm actually pretty disappointed to hear that the world will be ending so soon. I think I've been subbed since the first month and will continue to till I stop playing. I'm just a nobody hermit that plays with another person that I met in the game but I'd like to give you my personal opinion on things that I was hoping to see before a world reset (and was hoping not too soon even if you implemented changes very quickly) Most, if not all of these things you two are aware anyways but thought I'd give you a heart filled reply since I really do love this game so much! Truly I do.

Animal breeding feels so extremely slow and RNG, I was hoping for some changes in regards to that. Maybe you two feel it's at a good pace? But compared to everything else in the game (not counting mining because it was goofed up) it's much slower to get any results. I wish that it didn't take so long to get any reward. If you feel that rennet farming would be too easy if you made breeding faster then maybe adjust how much rennet you get when you craft? I know cheese is very valuable hence the time investment.

There are so many crappy curios. What I would love to see is more of the foragable curios (not fate) being used in recipes. I actually really loved the enthroned toad curio when I first started the game and would love to see more curios that are like that. Maybe make it so Boar Tusks can be used to make some sort of figure for example. Maybe even have more curios that are like the golden egg (obviously not as powerful) randomly reward you as you do things in the game too. Also please stray away from curios that are larger than one inventory slot.

Speaking of foragables, please in the next world make it worth going out and foraging for new and exciting things. When I first started playing in this world my favorite thing was going out and foraging in unknown lands. Managing my inventory space and thinking 'shit my inventory is full, do I continue and drop a few things for more valuable ones or go back home. It was an adventure! Especially when I had no idea snowy mountains existed and came across one for the first time.
Also, I actually really dislike the fate system as a whole... I'm a hermit with nearly 200 or higher of every stat and honestly do every aspect in the game constantly and I rarely ever come across a fate curio... and the ones I do usually really suck.

Please make better tools for leveling ground, and maybe even one for creating slopes. I would really appreciate some development time on those two alone. I will admit the spot I chose was a very bad decision but leveling a small area and creating a slope so I could place my walls was such an awful experience. I'm not asking for easy-mode, but something more user, energy and time friendly would be great!

More focus on things like Clothing, armor, jewelry, cosmetics, furniture would be fantastic. Add more things that give stats (even if they're low), It doesn't have to be end game stuff! Rings that give +1 to strength crafted from catgold or a necklace crafted from a lucky rabbits foot that gives +2 agility, just more things between a spruce-cap player and a 5th level miner.

Obvious siege changes (as much as I don't care about those elements)


Anyways these are just a few thoughts. I really do wish you would implement more before resetting the world. I know your game is great, but It's honestly in my opinion it's just a foundation, there's so much that can be improved upon. I really love your game, and as cancerous as the community can be sometimes I love them too. I know it's not easy developing a game and I have a lot of respect for the two of you for creating so many enjoyable hours for me. Thanks.