Prelude: Happy New World!

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

On p2w, after shilling this game a bit:

Our opinion doesn't matter. I'll always like this game and pay for it.

What does matter is perspective players and buyers. They won't come here and debate whether it's p2w or too much incentive to pay or if the devs have overstepped their bounds. What they do is a surface scan of a game that appears to be mostly p2w and then they move on because they don't want to play a p2w game. Whenever I try to spread word of this game, the response is immediately "I don't want to play that game because the devs fucked it up by making it p2w"

Do you think what the people who are already playing matters? Because it doesn't. We'll play anyway, no matter how much we shit talk. What matters is how outsiders see it, and the way perspective buyers see it is that the devs have fucked the game and made it p2w, and that they don't want to have anything to do with that and therefore don't play. Are they right? We can debate it here forever until we hit 1000 pages but they will never see or read it. It doesn't matter if their stance is right or wrong, what matters is if they play or not, and following that if they pay or not. Milking a small community of 200 people indefinitely may not be the right choice.

[Tapewormz]

I don't want a world as big as world 8. It was way too huge, even with a river system. I just think that world 9 was so incredibly small.

[iamkug]

Couple more ideas
1. Revive the idea of peaceful vs violent slider. What about a skill that would be either OR type slider thing - like the slider bar in previous world (nature vs industry and peaceful vs martial). If as a hermit I dont want to PVP (I truly suck at it) I could pick hermit or "Monk" or "peaceful" that would deny me the ability to have have Rage (so I could not murder). I could still be killed but would gain my stats back faster. If something like this isnt implemented I will not continue to play and have already lost 2 hermit players that were killed and dont have the time to rebuild when their farm animals will die cuz they cant farm and keep things alive /or mine or such. It could be skill based or cash based - maybe a token? Could still fight but only knock someone out (and not be able to steal). Alternately could be more powerful on personal claim or personal village??
2. Simple NPCs (free or paid) my start with a farming toon that you would have to feed and train - that would be "online all the time" - it could be killed and equipped with stuff same as a toon but very limited skill / capacity. These could be a purchased "object". Could be “run” but would be limited – a farming one only. Then maybe add baker, or guard for tower. Again tower guard would need to be fed and you would need to give them arrows – they would just shoot arrows. Implement type of “serf” one at a time
3. Have "allegiance" to realm that would give FULL stat bonus.
4. If realm owner swore allegiance to another realm the entire realm would switch over (merging realms)
5. Have bonuses in personal claims similar to realm but ONLY for the individual owning the claim or people who are in family (maybe very high defense? – or UA or something.
6. Have bonuses in village similar to realm only in those in clan / sworn allegiance
7. Some method to make higher quality clay like the high quality dirt from the compost bin.
8. If the crystals are going to be so important - sell them in the store. I could NEVER get them so no fun trading in this world (only minor nearby).
9. Flee token - or something like that -that would let you warp home (us hermits flee when we see white) again might be something that you can only get with LP investment or XP investment - or could be sold - would activate on combat but ONLY if you are peaceful (monk) or whatever you want to call the stat.

BTW I really think the simplified quality stats (eliminating the 3) is a good idea. Its non-value added activity within game.

[jordancoles]

Botters bot and make top q tools, then they sell their ingame items for sub tokens

So botters with 'unfair' advantage are actually helping to keep Jorb/Loftar fed by generating token sales?

[MagicManICT]

In simple word -> Haven truly stands to "survival" word. Either it is death by animals or suffering from all wolfs. Nowadays people are looking more towards "easy" games. This game is not easy and surely, won't be.

And yet the truly complex and difficult are getting more and more popular. Dark Souls was a strong seller. Dark Souls III has had huge sales from what I understand. I haven't played a game this hard since the NES, I don't think. (It certainly is in the top 10 all time.)

[DeltaBro101]

I just finished my Minehole after months of planning. But extremely happy as I love having the new worlds!

[pheonix]

PvP can't be only consenting, for reasons already outlined in the developer view on PvP.

Given that, and I agree with it, death needs to have consequences to be somewhat meaningful. When death mechanics in a game get to harsh (by either being unfair in the sense of leaving the victim no chance, or by destroying the ability to continue the game) it impacts the will of players to play. Dying and having to restart from scratch works for games like Realm of a mad God where you'll be back to where you died within some minutes. But it doesn't work for one where you'll need months, so people work around the issue by avoiding danger, exposing only alts or even automate the process of creating them.

All happening in Haven: getting killed by other, superior players for fun, unable to retaliate as the time needed to get the character back to a state where tracking the scent and creating a nidbane of reasonable quality that it succeeds takes longer than the scent lasts. Getting the character into a state able to fight back without simply acting as a low level NPC is impossible. Reaching out to neighbours for help is pointless unless the neighbours are a PvP faction and the ones who got you are not. Burying and state funeral sound like great mechanics but they are mostly unavailable to the average hermit. That leaves paranoia behind walls and alts.

My gut feeling is that death consequences in a game paced like Haven that last longer than a week kills player retention by killing any incentive to do something stupid (like getting together a horde of farmers to rally against their oppressors) for the fun of it. When you're PvP faction member and have access to burial and the fruits of (automated or not) industries this problem doesn't really exist (as can be gathered from forum comments, because these seem to voice that all is well except they just have it too hard to project their will on others because of siege slow and visitor sucks) since then you can recover quickly. But the median player, at least at world start, isn't PvP faction but hermit or larper village member.

Hence I proposed to have a world that is more of a game by making death suck less but still give a week of downside, less alts (as of less need and also by making them non-free) and to run this in parallel to see what works better by giving the players the ability to decide the world they want to live in.

i know its an unpopular opinion, but i personally think player death should be 20% lost stats (10% if you have the body), but have a increase of stat loss the more you die in a period of time say a week. So if you die via a pvper or a bear you not completely f'ed for a long period of time but if you keep going out pissing off a bear or rezzing during a raid you lose 50% the next death then 75% then a flat 95% after that and it takes a week to move back to the next bracket.

[LadyGoo]

Could we have the reset on Friday night? So people would have more time to play.

[boreial]

Could we have the reset on Friday night? So people would have more time to play.

+1

[ghandhikus]

Having some AI enemies to fight rather than fighting the community would help keep players from turning from achievers into killers. And frankly we need more achievers, explorers and socialisers in this game.

If you don't know what I'm arsing about... Bartle's Taxonomy

A lot of videos they make are just wrong. Including this one. Bartle taxonomy is not based on cognitive science, it's just a theory which wasn't tested in practice. As someone who learns a lot of about cognitive functions of the brain, I can easily see it's flaws. For example someone with good extraverted feeling can easily kill someone just for shit and giggles, but most of the time just farm and have peace. Someone with good introverted feeling will less likely attack someone, unless people from his village attack. He would learn that morality has little to no place in haven, but he will still use it after not being affected by his villagers/friends.