Game Development: Bagpipe Brawl

[jorb]

I'd like to point out that archery is more accurate than it was, and that it also penetrates armor to some extent. We did not just nerf it.

[ydex]

Did some quick bow hunting on my char with 20mm to see how it feels for low staters to go hunt. q of bow and arrows also q20ish.
Every animal runs away it seams, with some ~100 dmg. That's fine. But what gets annoying is firing the 2nd shot since the animal won't stand still long enough for this slow aiming speed
and if I aggro it runs. So i need to predict where the animal will be a long time in advance and that feels weird.

I havent tried with sling hunting tho, maybe that does low enough dmg so animals won't run away?

Otherwise I would love to see a propper trap added, like perhaps a tripwire snare that I could lure animals into by aggroing, instead of now having to cheese kill em with stockpile/boat traps. Making traps an actual feature pretty much.

I like the feeling of slow aim tho, makes me feel way less OP and in need of actual MM stat (not just like 10-20 MM on hunters like it used to be).

Sidestep move sounds like a good idea to!

[shadowchris]

I'd like to point out that archery is more accurate than it was, and that it also penetrates armor to some extent. We did not just nerf it.

Lol this is really all you have to say to criticism? Woo 5% armor penetration and more accuracy! I'm sure that outweighs the fact that it takes way too long to aim a bow with capped perception and MM. Or the fact that you butchered the damage in half. Like thank God for those changes it really did help.

[ChildhoodObesity]

you guys should be praising jorb/loftar ok, idk why you act like cutting the damage in half is a bad thing archer ganksquads could still shit on ppl so hard, maybe the aimspeed shudnt be as slow but other than that its perfect

hasta is completely right about hunting animals tbh

[MusicWarrior]

People cry weeks that archery is op, devs does nothing about that. Finally they just kill it by changing whole shit. Why you just don't try to make aiming lower or less dmg dealt by bows and see how it works instead of changing all? I don't get the logic. Also the nerf on horses is so sad, I thought u buffed aiming on horses because I couldn't believe. For sure we will see many archers on the battlefield which have no way to defend themselfs nor run away using a horse.

[jorb]

I'd like to point out that archery is more accurate than it was, and that it also penetrates armor to some extent. We did not just nerf it.

Lol this is really all you have to say to criticism? Woo 5% armor penetration and more accuracy! I'm sure that outweighs the fact that it takes way too long to aim a bow with capped perception and MM. Or the fact that you butchered the damage in half. Like thank God for those changes it really did help.

lol I can revert them if you'd prefer that smh xd prank.

I'm very open to the possibility that we nerfed it too much, and if we did I'd happily nudge it back up again, but at least the discussion should reflect all the actual changes we made, rather than just paint it as some blunt nerf without any thought whatsoever. The increased accuracy should make a fairly big difference.

[ChildhoodObesity]

yo jorb bro dont listen 2 these point and click 1shot advocates ok theyre trying to ruin the game uve done v well bro

[cyrus9586]

I'd like to point out that archery is more accurate than it was, and that it also penetrates armor to some extent. We did not just nerf it.

Lol this is really all you have to say to criticism? Woo 5% armor penetration and more accuracy! I'm sure that outweighs the fact that it takes way too long to aim a bow with capped perception and MM. Or the fact that you butchered the damage in half. Like thank God for those changes it really did help.

lol I can revert them if you'd prefer that smh xd prank.

I'm very open to the possibility that we nerfed it too much, and if we did I'd happily nudge it back up again, but at least the discussion should reflect all the actual changes we made, rather than just paint it as some blunt nerf without any thought whatsoever. The accuracy should make a fairly big difference.

First let me take the time out to say this Jorb. Thank you. J&L thank you both for HnH V1 and 2. I have enjoyed the first game a lot. The 2nd one Im still new in.

Now on the armor pen that seems cool. The dmg reduction is alright and the aim speed. is well...not that great. I see how all of this can help balance PvP. But again I'm not a raider/pvp person. I tend to be the back seat guy in PvP games. I will make you armor. I will sharpen your sword. After that your on your own. I'm the one who goes out and gets the food to keep the warriors going. I don't tend to even buy the skills to attack other people.

With all the above I can see how all this seems good. But can we have a separate way calculate MM on animals please? I was already having a hard time getting meat to get my stats up to be a miner/smith. Without a solid way to trap animals, and not by having two or more boats with me, or having a good way to aim at moving animals, or almost anything that lends towards helping hunt animals besides sitting in the boat, which now increases aim time by 50%, it has become next to impossible. Even doubling my MM from 20-40 had little to no effect. Adding a whole new mechanic like a snare trap or a pit trap would require mass amounts of balancing for sooner or later someone would want it for PvP and then theres a whole new kettle of fish to worry about. But if we just had a way that the game could say Player:-dmg, +aim time or NPC animal: +dmg -aim time then it could help. Legacy had the funky AI abuse that meant anyone with a sling could kill a bear with 10 MM or less. But then also you didn't end up with a whole hell of a lot. It took and takes a lot of meat to be able to get FEPs up. All I am asking is a bit of balance for people like me who couldn't care less for PvP.

Again thank you for this game. Thank you for your work. And thank you for listening to people. And if you ever do a legacy HnH single player mode (not private server but literally Legacy but offline single player) let me know.

[Enjoyment]

I'd like to point out that archery is more accurate than it was, and that it also penetrates armor to some extent. We did not just nerf it.

Yes, you did. More than that, you nerfed bow-hunting in much harder way than bow PvP, just 'cause you listened to 3 crying babies, instead of whole community. It was said like a million times that "Reducing bow ability to make damage is stupid" in all that whining topics, made for the last one-and-a-half month. But you did it. And now bow-hunting is rediculous. But those "happy footmans" you praised will be happy for a week, and than they'll find another reason of their loses to whine about.
1. Archery nerf was needed idea, but your nerf is too hard.
2. Footman archery nerf was a bad idea.
3. Wanna balance "bowman versus footman"? Give some stuff to footmen.Let's imagine some theoretical early world warfare:
 3.1. In the beginning some guys defeated some other guys with their clubs. Again and again.
 3.2. One group of defeated guys was just running around and crying "Please, Gods, make our enemies weaker than us! Pls!!!" and they sucked again and again.
 3.3. But another group invited bows and made clubmen looks like hedgehogs with arrows sticked from every piece of their bodies.
3.4. So now, one group of defeated clubmen was just running around and crying "Please, Gods, make our enemies weaker than us! Pls!!!" and they sucked again and again.
 3.5. But another group invited chainmails and big shields, so they were protected from archers, and they succseed. Until their enemies invited powerfull crossbows.
That's how the warfare evolution works. But in our case, Gods pleased the first group and made their enemies weaker so they have no need to invite something. And in case they'll face another thread - all they will do is to cry to their Gods louder. And that sucks.
4. So instead of nerfing archery, it was more logical to make people be able to protect themselves from archery.
5. And if consider to leave this nerf for a long time - you should consider some gift to unfaily fked hunters. And I have an idea for it - implemet bone-knife. Made from 1 bone and softcapped by surv. With crappy dmg so it isn't viable as weapon but extremly useful for butchering. 'Cause bowpipe won't calm down the dispair of fked hunters, but this thing can.
Not a "What devs should do with their game. Manual for dummies", just IMHO.

[jorb]

"You listen too much!"

"You don't listen at all!"

Instead of crying over meaningless meta-issues I suggest y'all spend your time and energy making thoughtful posts about where archery should be/go. More constructive discussion that way.