Game Development: Bagpipe Brawl

[JackMehoff]

The complaints about archery imo, was because it was NOT EQUAL to the melee system. Archer was wayy to powerful against melee users, in relation to PVP. To me it looks like you didnt have the aim of balancing archery and melee, but instead focused on nerfing archery.

Before the patch, the PVE system was balanced, as sprucecap archers could easily kill early creatures, while struggling with bigger creatures. Vice versa as beginner melee characters would struggle with killing small creatures (combat disco), and would then move on with easily being able to kill bigger creatures. In the past the PVE system was balanced but the PVP system was NOT.

Now both PVE and PVP has been unbalanced. Simple ideas, related to PVE, could be to increase damage dealt towards animals with archery, THE SAME AMOUNT OF HITS IT WOULD TAKE FOR A MELEE. In the sense of balancing PVP, i would introduce a mechanism where it does damage faster/aims faster if you actually aim on the map, instead of the icon in the top right, making the game more "skills" based. Also it seems like that archers should be RANGED damage?, i would give bow users a slight move speed buff, so they can sort of "kite".
Im not very used to PVP.

But in conclusion it looks like you have mindlessly just nerfed archery, without the sense of trying to actually "balancing" the two systems.

[ydex]

THE SAME AMOUNT OF HITS IT WOULD TAKE FOR A MELEE.

How many hits do you imagine it takes with melee? sounds like you don't really have any idea. at q20 sword with q20 str its about same dmg as q20 bow with q20 arrow as it is now, before it was heavily favoured towards the bows dmg.

As for the idea that archer would have higher movement speed that is to eploitable and would mean everyone trying to not fight would just use a bow n run away. It' not a good idea.

[maslov2]

THE SAME AMOUNT OF HITS IT WOULD TAKE FOR A MELEE.

How many hits do you imagine it takes with melee? sounds like you don't really have any idea. at q20 sword with q20 str its about same dmg as q20 bow with q20 arrow as it is now, before it was heavily favoured towards the bows dmg.

As for the idea that archer would have higher movement speed that is to eploitable and would mean everyone trying to not fight would just use a bow n run away. It' not a good idea.

you can 1hit KO any player with B12 cleave. Also with hq sword. Now please say to me, how much time it will reque to kill some1 with a bow after nerf? id say like 2mins and it's 2minutes if player is AFK

[Enjoyment]

There were a tons of constructive discussions on forum last month. And what the point of them? You just nerfed archery. (

None of that discussion reflected these changes, however, as they were made just now. And, again, we didn't just nerf archery. We increased accuracy significantly.

Oh, cmon. Stop hiding behind this "increased accuracy significantly" - noone will thx you for this 'cause of 2 mins aiming and shitty dmg.
Wanna some constuctive?

We've been developing, and here's what's new.

New Implementations
-----------------------

• Added Bagpipe. Add something needed like Bone-knife.

Combat Changes Pushed to Real Server
-----------------------

• Lowered the angle spread of ranged weapons. Ranged weapons should generally speaking be more accurate. Don't needed but okay.
• Lowered the aiming speed of ranged weapons significantly. Ranged weapons now aim slower. Maybe there should be "slightly less slower', not "slow as fk"
• Reduced the base damage of bows to ~60%. Left it as was for slings. Increased it for spears. What is the point of RAW nerf?
• Bow reloads automatically after firing. Okay, first QoL for over the month, though a little explaination would be nice
• Increased combat cooldown after firing a ranged weapon from 30 to 50. Don't needed but okay.
• Arrows have 5% armor penetration. That's the only melee vs bow balance change, though you should consider buffing armor instead of nerfing arrows.
• There is now a 50% aiming speed debuff whenever you are mounted. Again - raw nerf. Consider adding mounted archery as skill and make horse archery depend on that skill. Add special saddles for horse melee/archers. Or atleast say you will add them in future.
• There is now a (short) minimum distance required for all ranged weapons. I.e. you can't shoot effectively at things you're standing next to. Poinless raw nerf. Add perk "Close Shot" (50k LP, 50MM and 50 clear AGI to learn).
• Reduced the relative importance of Agility for determining cooldowns in close combat. Values are now what they were in Legacy.

All this notes was said not once in big "archery nerf disccussins". And if you want to know you nerfed archery too much, just read this

I think that the nerf for aiming speed while mounted will remove archery completly from pvp, thats too much imo.

Ozzy was one of those "Nerf archery PvP" writers, but even he thinks your "changes" was not good.

Simple solution:
1. buff armor against arrows.
2. buff agi against per.
3. All happy.

[jorb]

I'm not "hiding" behind anything. I've already said that I'm entirely open to the possibility that we went too hard on it. There's very little more to add.

I am however pointing out that it is not as simple as us nerfing archery, because that is not all we did.

[ydex]

THE SAME AMOUNT OF HITS IT WOULD TAKE FOR A MELEE.

How many hits do you imagine it takes with melee? sounds like you don't really have any idea. at q20 sword with q20 str its about same dmg as q20 bow with q20 arrow as it is now, before it was heavily favoured towards the bows dmg.

As for the idea that archer would have higher movement speed that is to eploitable and would mean everyone trying to not fight would just use a bow n run away. It' not a good idea.

you can 1hit KO any player with B12 cleave. Also with hq sword. Now please say to me, how much time it will reque to kill some1 with a bow after nerf? id say like 2mins and it's 2minutes if player is AFK

highly doubt its 2min with high skilled archer, high q bow and high q arrow. this is what these differences seam to bring. q200 bow, q200 arrow, 200+ per test n vid pls before making stuff up!

[Enjoyment]

I'm not "hiding" behind anything. I've already said that I'm entirely open to the possibility that we went too hard on it. There's very little more to add.

I am however pointing out that it is not as simple as us nerfing archery, because that is not all we did.

So, maybe you can be so kind and enlight us about what was the point of these changes, and why did you choose the way of nerfing bows (which was obvoiusly touching nonPvP hunting) instead of buffing melee? No offence, clear plea.
P.S. Also like the way ypu named this update - bagpipe is definitely the world-changing thing.

[maslov2]

Please nerf more jorb --->
I think aiming speed is still too dangerous for warriorz, it have to be like 1min for full bar (80-90%).
300 dmg will be enought with maxed skills/everything and top bows/arrows.
That accuracy is too OP. I think 30% change to hit direct target would good.
And also please make horse to dissmount you automatically, when you trying to mount it with a bow in hand.
Also make heavy armor to deflect arrows, so archer could damage and KO himself by shooting some steel warriorz.

Ok and we all want a wound called "arrow in the knee".

[jorb]

Because archery was retarded? You couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, and to compensate for that we had made it so that you did ridiculous damage when you did hit.

Hunting consists of walking up to an animal, standing next to it, and firing with a full aim meter to one-shot-kill, and this with very little character investment necessary.

Retarded.

The idea wasn't even to nerf it. The idea was to change it.

Buffing melee, thus, wouldn't have made archery any less retarded.

[jorb]

You're a true martyr, maslov.