Game Development: Rollin'-rollin'-rollin'

[Sevenless]

Maybe you're being triggered because subconsciously you realized you actually did sound retarded previously and your brain made a move to actually change your attitude but your inner asshole couldn't comprehend the feeling of being wrong and here we are? Not sure what to tell you mate, I don't really know you.

Or maybe I'm just extremely frustrated that people can show so much inability to comprehend that some games are made for niches and if those niches enjoy specific mechanics within the game, the mechanic is not flawed. This who discussion is some "new blood" arguing vs the "old guard" over what is better in the game, when the game was MADE for the "old guard". We liked having no pathfinding and found it a skillfull mechanic promoting more active play. You are under the illusion that we are "Wrong" in what we enjoy in a game. That's just reaching idiocy levels.

Pathfinding is like darkness in this game. You can't stop custom clients from getting around it as a mechanic, end of story.

Sorry but it's inevitable. Whether I like that fact or not, it's the truth. And without public support, it'll just be private clients/factions that get to have it for a long while.

[Moretimer]

But just in a few minutes you will reply to this comment with some rebuttal which will make no sence to me, because you cannot give up on your arguments. I'm the same way, unable to back down from my beliefs.

Exactly, mine are arguments - your are beliefs. I'm glad you wrote it yourself, thanks for kicking yourself ^^

Pathfinding is like darkness in this game. You can't stop custom clients from getting around it as a mechanic, end of story.

So basically you're admitting that pathfinding IS having a walkaround in some private/faction clients but since it IS a thing and not only the "young blood" finds it annoying but the "old guard" are going the length and actually made their own custom client JUST to fix this issue - I'm still wrong?

How about we stop the old guard from having the advantage with their customised clients and get rid of the issue for everyone altogether? ( yes yes, for some people that like to exploit it to "win" in pvp its not an issue. I know. )

[Sevenless]

So basically you're admitting that pathfinding IS having a walkaround in some private/faction clients but since it IS a thing and not only the "young blood" finds it annoying but the "old guard" are going the length and actually made their own custom client JUST to fix this issue - I'm still wrong? )

Annoying? Combat clipping in pvp was a massive part of movement combat. As soon as someone figured out client pathing to prevent hitting objects, it was a massive advantage in fights. So no, it has little to do with convenience and everything to do with combat superiority. Us "Old Guard" will pretty much sacrifice everything and anything when it comes to aesthetics/convenience if it gives combat edge. Most who didn't got killed out of the game.

It did reduce skill required for movement combat which was a very elitist skill based part of the game for a while. But anyone who thinks that pathing won't exist are just deluding themselves. There's some people who are letting nostalgia blind them to that reality.

[Procne]

Pathfinding is like darkness in this game. You can't stop custom clients from getting around it as a mechanic, end of story.

So basically you're admitting that pathfinding IS having a walkaround in some private/faction clients but since it IS a thing and not only the "young blood" finds it annoying but the "old guard" are going the length and actually made their own custom client JUST to fix this issue - I'm still wrong?

They mostly have it not as a way to fix the issue of being unable to go around a tree but to implement bots and/or optimize stuff.
Thus we return to
Player character being controlled by AI capable of playing.

[Moretimer]

So basically you're admitting that pathfinding IS having a walkaround in some private/faction clients but since it IS a thing and not only the "young blood" finds it annoying but the "old guard" are going the length and actually made their own custom client JUST to fix this issue - I'm still wrong? )

Annoying? Combat clipping in pvp was a massive part of movement combat. As soon as someone figured out client pathing to prevent hitting objects, it was a massive advantage in fights. So no, it has little to do with convenience and everything to do with combat superiority. Us "Old Guard" will pretty much sacrifice everything and anything when it comes to aesthetics/convenience if it gives combat edge. Most who didn't got killed out of the game.

It did reduce skill required for movement combat which was a very elitist skill based part of the game for a while. But anyone who thinks that pathing won't exist are just deluding themselves. There's some people who are letting nostalgia blind them to that reality.

Thank you. I'm glad the community is not turning an entirely blind eye to the issue.

[Moretimer]

Pathfinding is like darkness in this game. You can't stop custom clients from getting around it as a mechanic, end of story.

So basically you're admitting that pathfinding IS having a walkaround in some private/faction clients but since it IS a thing and not only the "young blood" finds it annoying but the "old guard" are going the length and actually made their own custom client JUST to fix this issue - I'm still wrong?

They mostly have it not as a way to fix the issue of being unable to go around a tree but to implement bots and/or optimize stuff.
Thus we return to
Player character being controlled by AI capable of playing.

You sound like a person who doesn't have it. I'm therefore going to make a big assumption here. How do you, a person who doesn't have it and did not experience what those clients provide first hand have such a vocal opinion about Why they have it? Yes, there will be a plethora of reasons but you're basically discarding some of them because You don't see them as valid.

Just link me the goddamn client and I'll be out of your hair

[Procne]

They mostly have it not as a way to fix the issue of being unable to go around a tree but to implement bots and/or optimize stuff.
Thus we return to
Player character being controlled by AI capable of playing.

You sound like a person who doesn't have it. I'm therefore going to make a big assumption here. How do you, a person who doesn't have it and did not experience what those clients provide first hand have such a vocal opinion about Why they have it?

Talking with other people, meddling with client myself, seeing how no public client has this feature and how only new, unexperienced players seem to ask for this feature. Here and in Salem

How do you, a person who has barely played the game, has such a vocal opinion about what the game should be like?

Yes, there will be a plethora of reasons but you're basically discarding some of them because You don't see them as valid.

Actually I am not discarding them. See how my involvement in the discussion started.

[Moretimer]

They mostly have it not as a way to fix the issue of being unable to go around a tree but to implement bots and/or optimize stuff.
Thus we return to
Player character being controlled by AI capable of playing.

You sound like a person who doesn't have it. I'm therefore going to make a big assumption here. How do you, a person who doesn't have it and did not experience what those clients provide first hand have such a vocal opinion about Why they have it?

Talking with other people, meddling with client myself, seeing how no public client has this feature and how only new, unexperienced players seem to ask for this feature. Here and in Salem

How do you, a person who has barely played the game, has such a vocal opinion about what the game should be like?

Yes, there will be a plethora of reasons but you're basically discarding some of them because You don't see them as valid.

Actually I am not discarding them. See how my involvement in the discussion started.

Oh I do have the knowledge already. Bots were basically seen as fine in hnh 1, and you're going to tell me that anything changed and now everyone is a saint in hnh2?

What does having a client that does pathfinding for you got to do with experience? Experience in writing in java, maybe.

As to why a person who has barely played the game have such a vocal opinion, I'll explain by an example. Once upon a time, in the old days, men used square wheels as a medium for carts to move their belongings around if they had no domesticated animals available. Eventually they found out that a wheel does a much better job. Am I trying to say I will be the hnh2's Steve Jobs? No, I'd rather stay being alive, thank you very much. But there are issues and we both know it.

[Procne]

Oh I do have the knowledge already. Bots were basically seen as fine in hnh 1, and you're going to tell me that anything changed and now everyone is a saint in hnh2?

What? Is this another red herring or you putting words in my mouth again? What does how bots were seen have to do with the topic?

What does having a client that does pathfinding for you got to do with experience? Experience in writing in java, maybe.

Dunno, it's you, for some reason, linking the two. I only said that it's mostly people inexperienced with the game calling for pathfinding.

As to why a person who has barely played the game have such a vocal opinion, I'll explain by an example. Once upon a time, in the old days, men used square wheels as a medium for carts to move their belongings around if they had no domesticated animals available. Eventually they found out that a wheel does a much better job. Am I trying to say I will be the hnh2's Steve Jobs? No, I'd rather stay being alive, thank you very much. But there are issues and we both know it.

Yes, you mentioned the issue already - animals apparently being in a better position because there is AI (pretty dumb while we are at it) guiding them and you don't have that AI. TBH I haven't heard such a silly argument in a long time, only magnified by the fact you bring your inability to deal with simple pathfinding and combat with animals up to a gamebreaking issue (which is weird bcause later you show off your bear cape obtained on day 3, most likely gained thanks to how stupid animal AI is). You're not coming up with anything new. The subject has been brought up many times - you're beating a dead horse here.

Hmm I could play your game and try to twist your words and make fun of how you need someone to invent a wheel chair for you to be able to play the game better. Mentioning it not out of spite but simply because I find this humorous.

I could understand arguments about optional pathfinding to improve comfort of the gameplay, although I would still consider it a minor issue compared to how much work would be required to make it work in default client.

[Moretimer]

Oh I do have the knowledge already. Bots were basically seen as fine in hnh 1, and you're going to tell me that anything changed and now everyone is a saint in hnh2?

What? Is this another red herring or you putting words in my mouth again? What does how bots were seen have to do with the topic?

What does having a client that does pathfinding for you got to do with experience? Experience in writing in java, maybe.

Dunno, it's you, for some reason, linking the two. I only said that it's mostly people inexperienced with the game calling for pathfinding.

As to why a person who has barely played the game have such a vocal opinion, I'll explain by an example. Once upon a time, in the old days, men used square wheels as a medium for carts to move their belongings around if they had no domesticated animals available. Eventually they found out that a wheel does a much better job. Am I trying to say I will be the hnh2's Steve Jobs? No, I'd rather stay being alive, thank you very much. But there are issues and we both know it.

Yes, you mentioned the issue already - animals apparently being in a better position because there is AI (pretty dumb while we are at it) guiding them and you don't have that AI. TBH I haven't heard such a silly argument in a long time, only magnified by the fact you bring your inability to deal with simple pathfinding and combat with animals up to a gamebreaking issue (which is weird bcause later you show off your bear cape obtained on day 3, most likely gained thanks to how stupid animal AI is). You're not coming up with anything new. The subject has been brought up many times - you're beating a dead horse here.

Hmm I could play your game and try to twist your words and make fun of how you need someone to invent a wheel chair for you to be able to play the game better. Mentioning it not out of spite but simply because I find this humorous.

I could understand arguments about optional pathfinding to improve comfort of the gameplay, although I would still consider it a minor issue compared to how much work would be required to make it work in default client.

What I ment by that is me being new to the game doesn't mean I lack the ability to find information and learn. The idea Not to put pathfinding in is to combat bots. The problem is that by preventing people from having pathfinding which - would in turn give new players a more enjoyable experience - is that the lack of it will generate a bigger gap between players having modified client that bot and players that don't. Yes, inexperienced people are calling for pathfinding. Experienced people already have modified clients, hence they're either blind to the issue or simply are already Not having the issue. I am beating a dead horse, I noticed that after I started the discussion. Me doing that and other people being vocal about it in the past should of honestly given you a hint by now.