Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby jorb » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:03 pm

Facts: The village of Tartarus was raided by Willy's Wizards. The Wizards gained access to Tartarus by spawning an alt by Tartarus' charter stone, walking the alt off Tartarus' village claim, gaining enough LP on the alt to buy vandalism using an icicle, hearthing the alt back home to its spawn-given Hearthfire inside Tartarus, and once there building a minehole as a crime of vandalism, a minehole through which the main force of wizards could then gain entry into Tartarus without acquiring the visitor debuff.

Issue of Legality: The legal question involved is whether the visitor debuff should imply perfect safety for any walled and claimed compound, and whether the Wizards have committed a foul by thusly circumventing the visitor debuff.

Reasoning: The intention of the visitor debuff is not to guarantee the safety of any walled and claimed compound, but rather to make it possible to create safe spaces. The real life analogy to the visitor debuff could perhaps be something akin to gaining access to an area by first agreeing to abide by its rules by unhanding weapons and the like. While a safe area is necessarily walled and claimed, the opposite is however not necessarily true, i.e. walled-and-claimedness is a necessary but not sufficient condition for a compound to be secure by the visitor debuff. For example, we do not mind a village being raided by using subterfuge to gain the village's trust, and by such means circumventing the visitor debuff. To some reasonable extent it must be the architect's responsibility to ensure and verify that his claim and wall setups are in fact as secure as he imagines them.

In the particular case Olympus considers that Tartarus has made at least three sub-optimal safety decisions. Forensic photo.

  • Tartarus has left public spawning enabled on the charter stone.
  • Tartarus has not walled off the charter stone area.
  • Tartarus has left virtually all external and internal gates open.
Solving any of these problems makes the scenario that unfolded impossible.

Is there a bug involved? One "solution" to build this problem away would be to make it so that Hearthing home to a claim which is not yours, implies gaining a visitor debuff. This is consistent with the pattern that teleportation implies a visitor debuff (see charter stones), but it has too many potential problems to be worth considering. (Hearthfires being offensively claimed and walled-in, for example). Hearthing home should not imply gaining a visitor debuff. Another solution is to make it so that spawning by a Charter stone does not place a Hearthfire, which is problematic as any slip-up on the part of a newly spawned character, before constructing a hearthfire, would then imply a forced wilderness spawn due to inability to log in on the village claim again if logged out. On the other hand we have previously considered even making newly charter stone spawned characters members of the village immediately. On the third hand one could argue that wilderness beacons make charter stone spawning superfluous.

It is obvious that there exists an edge case in the mechanics here which is perhaps not obvious, but it is also not obvious that the possible fixes are clear and strict upgrades which should as a matter-of-course be implemented. It could perhaps be said that the charter stone mechanic can be confusing to an architect -- and that it perhaps for that reason could be clarified -- but that it as such nevertheless does work as intended.

Verdict: In light of the fact that three separate, unnecessary, and in some sense obviously accident-prone decisions on part of the architect left Tartarus vulnerable, Olympus has with some reluctance decided to exonerate Willy's Wizards of game-foul in the case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus. This is not to say that any and all attempts to circumvent the visitor debuff would be considered kosher, but at some point we have to draw a line where mechanical problem ends, and reasonable user error begins. From the point of view of the public interest we have also considered the incentives we wish to present to Hearthlings, in part by this precedent, as regards bug reporting and abusing. While we do believe that obvious abuses of game mechanics should imply a punishment, we also do not wish to create a draconian climate where experimentation is outlawed by nature, and where mechanical problems are never discovered on account of never being explored or reported.

While we are going to exonerate the Wizards of foul as such, we also think that there is a good case to be made that this interaction should have been reported before used, and that a climate where people seek more or less gamely ways to circumvent the visitor debuff should be discouraged, hence we have in our infinite, Salomonic wisdom, decided to for some time lift our protective hand from the Wizards -- who, I am sure, are more than capable of protecting themselves with their powerful magics -- and that any exploitative behavior leveraged against them will for the foreseeable future be left unpunished, provided that an accurate report of it is provided Olympus after the fact.

This concludes proceedings.

FIAT JUSTITIA RUAT CAELUM
"The psychological trials of dwellers in the last times will be equal to the physical trials of the martyrs. In order to face these trials we must be living in a different world."

-- Hieromonk Seraphim Rose
User avatar
jorb
 
Posts: 16383
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:07 am
Location: Here, there and everywhere.

Re: Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby DDDsDD999 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:06 pm

Image It's a fukken wizard's cap.
Last edited by DDDsDD999 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Jorb, you're literally hitler.
User avatar
DDDsDD999
 
Posts: 4695
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby NOOBY93 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:07 pm

Get fucking lawyered, cunts.
Jalpha wrote:I believe in my interpretation of things.
User avatar
NOOBY93
 
Posts: 6519
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby evilboy666 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:07 pm

LET JUSTICE BE DONE THOUGH THE HEAVENS FALL
User avatar
evilboy666
 
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:48 am

Re: Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby NaoWhut » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:08 pm

THE GODS HAVE SPOKEN
ImageImage
User avatar
NaoWhut
 
Posts: 4847
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:55 pm
Location: 卌卌卌||||

Re: Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby Onep » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:09 pm

I feel like Dis is going to be at our doorstep rather soon. But our wizard powers shall prevail!
“We still, alas, cannot forestall it-
This dreadful ailment's heavy toll;
The spleen is what the English call it,
We call it simply, Russian soul.”

An idea to consider: Tedium, a Feature.
Do you like Onep? Do you think he'd look good in green? www.Onep4mod.com
Jorb hates me. :\
User avatar
Onep
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:59 pm
Location: Walwus

Re: Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby linkfanpc » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:12 pm

jorb wrote: we have in our infinite, Salomonic wisdom, decided to for some time lift our protective hand from the Wizards -- who, I am sure, are more than capable of protecting themselves with their powerful magics -- and that any exploitative behavior leveraged against them will for the foreseeable future be left unpunished, provided that an accurate report of it is provided Olympus after the fact.



:lol: Git rekt n00bs!
KCAB SRETTEL EERHT
jorb wrote:Hitting a "Ghejejiiwlonk" with your "Umappawoozle" for eightyfifteen points of "Sharmakookel", simply makes no sense.

W7: Semi-Hermit
W8: Semi-Hermit
W9: Lawspeaker of The Village of Redstone
W10: Lawspeaker
User avatar
linkfanpc
 
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby NOOBY93 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:14 pm

linkfanpc wrote:
jorb wrote: we have in our infinite, Salomonic wisdom, decided to for some time lift our protective hand from the Wizards -- who, I am sure, are more than capable of protecting themselves with their powerful magics -- and that any exploitative behavior leveraged against them will for the foreseeable future be left unpunished, provided that an accurate report of it is provided Olympus after the fact.



:lol: Git rekt n00bs!

Rekt by what exactly
Jalpha wrote:I believe in my interpretation of things.
User avatar
NOOBY93
 
Posts: 6519
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby Raffeh » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:15 pm

well judged, well judged. You heard it lads any exploits on the wizards is free game ;D
TRAITORS WILL BE SHOT.
User avatar
Raffeh
 
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:16 pm

Re: Divine Judgment: The Case of Willy Potter vs. Tartarus

Postby Archiplex » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:20 pm

I approve of this greatly, in both fairness on the case that the Wizard's held, and the lack of security in Tartarus- the "punishment" is rather fitting as well.
An arbiter of justice- the final judge of those damned and those saved.
Vita en eternum
Lawspeaker of Niflheim
User avatar
Archiplex
 
Posts: 736
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:28 am
Location: In the midst of the stars and skies

Next

Return to Announcements

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Artemiswhb, Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot] and 7 guests