Game Development: Beavertopia

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby Redlaw » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:14 am

I killed a beaverm hopoing I get to make a beaver fur coat, or some clothing item out of it lol. The teeth though seem like a good curo.
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Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby Dreadicon » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:39 am

So, I very strongly support finding a resolution to the issue of constant ganking/death. I agree, however, with others that simply teleporting KOs to HF will not solve the majority of the problem.

The first problem is incentive; PvP happens (mainly) because you can get stuff from killing people. Non-combatants are most at-risk for this as they typically are low-risk, high-reward.
The second problem is discrepancy; high level players can wantonly slay low level players and loot their bodies with little effort but still reap the reward, even if they are decently equipped.

I would suggest that in PvP specifically mechanics worked as follows:

-Separate Rage from Nidbane conjuring. In fact, make Nidbane conjuring exclusive of Rage; i.e. nidbanes are gimped or disabled by having Rage. Further, Rage has a 24 hour 'burn-in' timer until you can initiate PvP.
-Players without Rage are teleported back to HF on KO by PvP, dropping 0-20% random items and getting a 24 hour debuff 'Tempted Fate'.
-Players without Rage who are reduced to 0 HHP by PvP are teleported back to HF at 1HHP, drop 0-90% of items, and gain 'Tempted Fate' debuff.
-The % items dropped is based on total LP & FEP of the two characters. Characters where low FEP/LP compared to the aggressor will drop little or nothing, while aggressors with low FEP/LP compared to the victim's will result in more drops. Multiple aggressors get their FEP & LP summed.
-The debuff 'Tempted Fate' removes all above protections without granting any other effects until it wears off.
-Optionally allow for Rage to be 'unpurchased' by spending the same amount of LP as Rage, or 1-2% of total character LP, whichever is greater. Same 'burn-in' time applies.

Alternatively to Rage/Nidbane gating, bring back good old peace and war meter, and only full war can initiate PvP, but full peace gain aforementioned benefits.

This obviously won't stop ganking and such, but it means that non-pvp oriented players who are attacked can fight back tooth and nail without trying to first run, increasing the risks for gankers, as well as reducing the benefits. It also means that one-shotting a noob will give the ganker nothing.

PvE should not have these mechanics and remain as-is; Death needs to stay relevant, but it needs to be more within the player's control when and how that situation arises.

Finally, as for end-game; why not super early steampunk mechanisms like cogs/wheels/crankshafs similar to the windmill grain mill? Automate your town/farm so bots don't have to! I also want to see ballista and such for town defense against siege. Or perhaps henchmen. As a fellow programmer, I'm well aware of the scope of what I'm suggesting, but hey, you can't deny it wouldn't be awesome!
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Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby MagicManICT » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:47 am

Not sure about the claim shield thing... I guess I'd have to see more specifics to understand if it's better/worse than the current mechanic.

One of the things that endears me to H&H is the permadeath. Knowing I can lose it all by being flippant to the wrong person in social interactions or just teasing the wrong animal (or failing to pay attention to where I'm wandering) is risky. I won't miss it if it's gone or softened more, as this game is great without such harsh penalties.
Opinions expressed in this statement are the authors alone and in no way reflect on the game development values of the actual developers.
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Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby spawningmink » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:48 am

so from what I gather is that youre trying to remove death and sabotage from the game? ok lmao this is getting more stupid every patch
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Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby ZBoysInHeat » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:57 am

I dont think there's enough excitement for the beavers. I thank you jorb and loftar for making this game so much more friendly for Canadians. This is the best update to date.
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Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby spawningmink » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:02 am

Dreadicon wrote:So, I very strongly support finding a resolution to the issue of constant ganking/death. I agree, however, with others that simply teleporting KOs to HF will not solve the majority of the problem.

The first problem is incentive; PvP happens (mainly) because you can get stuff from killing people. Non-combatants are most at-risk for this as they typically are low-risk, high-reward.
The second problem is discrepancy; high level players can wantonly slay low level players and loot their bodies with little effort but still reap the reward, even if they are decently equipped.

I would suggest that in PvP specifically mechanics worked as follows:

-Separate Rage from Nidbane conjuring. In fact, make Nidbane conjuring exclusive of Rage; i.e. nidbanes are gimped or disabled by having Rage. Further, Rage has a 24 hour 'burn-in' timer until you can initiate PvP.
-Players without Rage are teleported back to HF on KO by PvP, dropping 0-20% random items and getting a 24 hour debuff 'Tempted Fate'.
-Players without Rage who are reduced to 0 HHP by PvP are teleported back to HF at 1HHP, drop 0-90% of items, and gain 'Tempted Fate' debuff.
-The % items dropped is based on total LP & FEP of the two characters. Characters where low FEP/LP compared to the aggressor will drop little or nothing, while aggressors with low FEP/LP compared to the victim's will result in more drops. Multiple aggressors get their FEP & LP summed.
-The debuff 'Tempted Fate' removes all above protections without granting any other effects until it wears off.
-Optionally allow for Rage to be 'unpurchased' by spending the same amount of LP as Rage, or 1-2% of total character LP, whichever is greater. Same 'burn-in' time applies.
Alternatively to Rage/Nidbane gating, bring back good old peace and war meter, and only full war can initiate PvP, but full peace gain aforementioned benefits.

This obviously won't stop ganking and such, but it means that non-pvp oriented players who are attacked can fight back tooth and nail without trying to first run, increasing the risks for gankers, as well as reducing the benefits. It also means that one-shotting a noob will give the ganker nothing.

PvE should not have these mechanics and remain as-is; Death needs to stay relevant, but it needs to be more within the player's control when and how that situation arises.

Finally, as for end-game; why not super early steampunk mechanisms like cogs/wheels/crankshafs similar to the windmill grain mill? Automate your town/farm so bots don't have to! I also want to see ballista and such for town defense against siege. Or perhaps henchmen. As a fellow programmer, I'm well aware of the scope of what I'm suggesting, but hey, you can't deny it wouldn't be awesome!

OK I agree 1000% if players arnt buying rage they should not get such punishment if this is the direction youre going...but if players have rage then no punishment should be given! maybe even removing redhanded from attacking people with rage
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Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby ydex » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:10 am

Dreadicon wrote:
So, I very strongly support finding a resolution to the issue of constant ganking/death. I agree, however, with others that simply teleporting KOs to HF will not solve the majority of the problem.

The first problem is incentive; PvP happens (mainly) because you can get stuff from killing people. Non-combatants are most at-risk for this as they typically are low-risk, high-reward.
The second problem is discrepancy; high level players can wantonly slay low level players and loot their bodies with little effort but still reap the reward, even if they are decently equipped.

I would suggest that in PvP specifically mechanics worked as follows:

-Separate Rage from Nidbane conjuring. In fact, make Nidbane conjuring exclusive of Rage; i.e. nidbanes are gimped or disabled by having Rage. Further, Rage has a 24 hour 'burn-in' timer until you can initiate PvP.
-Players without Rage are teleported back to HF on KO by PvP, dropping 0-20% random items and getting a 24 hour debuff 'Tempted Fate'.
-Players without Rage who are reduced to 0 HHP by PvP are teleported back to HF at 1HHP, drop 0-90% of items, and gain 'Tempted Fate' debuff.
-The % items dropped is based on total LP & FEP of the two characters. Characters where low FEP/LP compared to the aggressor will drop little or nothing, while aggressors with low FEP/LP compared to the victim's will result in more drops. Multiple aggressors get their FEP & LP summed.
-The debuff 'Tempted Fate' removes all above protections without granting any other effects until it wears off.
-Optionally allow for Rage to be 'unpurchased' by spending the same amount of LP as Rage, or 1-2% of total character LP, whichever is greater. Same 'burn-in' time applies.

Alternatively to Rage/Nidbane gating, bring back good old peace and war meter, and only full war can initiate PvP, but full peace gain aforementioned benefits.

This obviously won't stop ganking and such, but it means that non-pvp oriented players who are attacked can fight back tooth and nail without trying to first run, increasing the risks for gankers, as well as reducing the benefits. It also means that one-shotting a noob will give the ganker nothing.

PvE should not have these mechanics and remain as-is; Death needs to stay relevant, but it needs to be more within the player's control when and how that situation arises.

Finally, as for end-game; why not super early steampunk mechanisms like cogs/wheels/crankshafs similar to the windmill grain mill? Automate your town/farm so bots don't have to! I also want to see ballista and such for town defense against siege. Or perhaps henchmen. As a fellow programmer, I'm well aware of the scope of what I'm suggesting, but hey, you can't deny it wouldn't be awesome
!


Yes to this :D good for all I feel if loots were based on difference in stats and portback system with a buff seams fair (and might hinder alts a little as well). ofc I'd like this even for chars with rage tho.
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Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby spawningmink » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:14 am

I think if you buy rage, you should be punished if hunted down
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Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby Fierce_Deity » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:28 am

jorb wrote:[*] We have considered getting rid of the entire concept of claim shields, and instead replace it with the inverted concept of a siege bubble, constructed by the attacker. Loosely speaking the attacker would designate an area of effect in one way or another, and after some condition completes -- the passing of time, attacks against the target, or both -- the area under the siege bubble would then become available to attacks and destruction. This has the potential upside of removing the various game-arounds and exploits associated with varying layers of overlapping claim and village shields, use of multiple villages and/or claims to acquire more shields, &c. There are plenty of moving parts here which make the exact formulation an open question, but feel free to opine on the general direction.

This siege change sounds pretty good IMO. I still feel that there should be a differentiation made between sieging and raiding. Sieges would be for the purpose of gaining complete access to a base as it is now, and raiding would provide access in a shorter amount of time, but allow limited looting options.
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Re: Game Development: Beavertopia

Postby stickman » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:32 am

was takedown really that good that it needed to be nerfed? i experimented with it but zig zag is to strong against it and its alot harder to stack millions of IP now.

As someone who doesn't enjoy killing people I dont think teleporting to hearth is really the best solution... if 2 villages had a big fight and KO'd a bunch of people they would instantly chug down a bunch of healing roots and be right back in the fight 10 min later. big villages can easily replace all the gear too if you made that drop, no big deal to them. How could you stop a raid? they would be right back in 20 min to attack you again... or right back to defending in 20 min as well... would make combat pretty ridiculous.


I have 2 alternate suggestions:

1. How about you still die so you can be looted etc (skull wouldn't have q or give LP though)... but when you respawn you can you get a special quest after your body decays... like the quest givers thing.. or maybe just the fetch things for your alter. and when you complete it you get your stats back. this would keep you out of combat for a few days.

2. Or when you die your body stays on the ground but your spirit gets teleported back to the HF... so basically you go back to your HF all transparent ghost like and you have a "death" type wound that starts at 90% and reduces all attributes and abilities by 90%... and each ingame day goes down by 1%.... as it goes down you become less transparent. if your bury your body or skull it reduces the wound so you can be back to normal faster... this way you keep all your permissions, your friends lists, and can continue working on your stats...


I like these methods more because if your trying to raid someone or defend and you kill somoene they are out of action for awhile but they wont quit the game because they know they will get their stats back.
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