Game Development: Post Rose

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby boreial » Tue May 29, 2018 4:08 am

Thank you for looking into things Loftar.
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Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby waga » Tue May 29, 2018 4:21 am

Luanes wrote:Sorry, I did get it. Can you explain?

If I plant something, it will need to be ready to harvest to check it's quality. So, if I plant every hour, when it's time to harvest I will have many combinations of -2 and +5. You will not be able to plant the same amount of crops with only he +5 ones. Or I'm wrong?


Indeed but that's not how you raise q anyway.
Let's take simple numbers to make it easy to understand.
a crop take 36h to grow , you have 6 different fields. you plant first one at H0 , second one H+6 , third one H+12 etc.
With this cycle you need to plant / harvest one field every 6 hours , which is hard for an human to do , easy for a bot. but your average Q/ hour increase will be a lot higher than if you planted everything at the same time every 36h.
The big advantage of the bot over the human is that it will harvest / plant every 6 hours and exactly 6 hours , making perfect cycle ( I think a perfect cycle is 5h actually , but it might have changed , and I couldn't confirm the info)
New patch wanted to get rid of that , it could look good on paper except that ... :
bot will simply make a cycle with 12 fields instead of 6 to take advantage of these sweet stored time buffer ... ( like a fallow land )
Does it reduce the advantage of the bot over the dedicated player ? clearly not. its cycle are still perfect , exactly on time but over a 72h period instead of 36 with 2x more field.
Does it reduce the advantage of the bot over the casual ? yeah I guess so , but why did they care in the first place anyway :roll:
Does it increase the amount of work of the dedicated player ? yup , does it gives him incentive to use these bots ? probably.

edit to make it clear : you obviously store your seeds when you harvest and use your best ones when you plant , you don't plant the freshly harvested neceserally :p

I mean it seems pretty clear to me that the main goal on this matter should not be to reduce the advantage of the bots over the average person but target the audience that could feel the need to such bots.
This change makes exactly the opposite of that.
Also , if the original idea was to reduce the advantage of the bot by also reducing the one from the dedicated players , that make a very boring game imo
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Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby ricky » Tue May 29, 2018 4:57 am

jorb wrote: Made it so that crops no longer need to be harvested the second they finish in order achieve their minimum cycle time. Whenever you destroy or harvest a crop the time the crop harvested had spent in the last growth stage is saved per tile or trellis. That time, up to a point, will then be added to your next planting on that tile. Do note that if you do not replant within a certain period, the retained time will be lost. Replanting within 3 RL days of the crop reaching its final growth stage should not lose you any time.

Enjoy!



have a few Qs:

how much time does it store?
does replant timer (3 RL days) start from beginning of the final crop stage, or from the moment you harvest the plant?
Is the saved time applied instantly, or applied as a speed bonus?
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Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby Luanes » Tue May 29, 2018 5:06 am

waga wrote:
Luanes wrote:Sorry, I did get it. Can you explain?

If I plant something, it will need to be ready to harvest to check it's quality. So, if I plant every hour, when it's time to harvest I will have many combinations of -2 and +5. You will not be able to plant the same amount of crops with only he +5 ones. Or I'm wrong?


Indeed but that's not how you raise q anyway.
Let's take simple numbers to make it easy to understand.
a crop take 36h to grow , you have 6 different fields. you plant first one at H0 , second one H+6 , third one H+12 etc.
With this cycle you need to plant / harvest one field every 6 hours , which is hard for an human to do , easy for a bot. but your average Q/ hour increase will be a lot higher than if you planted everything at the same time every 36h.
The big advantage of the bot over the human is that it will harvest / plant every 6 hours and exactly 6 hours , making perfect cycle ( I think a perfect cycle is 5h actually , but it might have changed , and I couldn't confirm the info)
New patch wanted to get rid of that , it could look good on paper except that ... :
bot will simply make a cycle with 12 fields instead of 6 to take advantage of these sweet stored time buffer ... ( like a fallow land )
Does it reduce the advantage of the bot over the dedicated player ? clearly not. its cycle are still perfect , exactly on time but over a 72h period instead of 36 with 2x more field.
Does it reduce the advantage of the bot over the casual ? yeah I guess so , but why did they care in the first place anyway :roll:
Does it increase the amount of work of the dedicated player ? yup , does it gives him incentive to use these bots ? probably.

edit to make it clear : you obviously store your seeds when you harvest and use your best ones when you plant , you don't plant the freshly harvested neceserally :p

I mean it seems pretty clear to me that the main goal on this matter should not be to reduce the advantage of the bots over the average person but target the audience that could feel the need to such bots.
This change makes exactly the opposite of that.
Also , if the original idea was to reduce the advantage of the bot by also reducing the one from the dedicated players , that make a very boring game imo


Got it. I've already thought, but still makes no "sense" for me on why this could be "so much faster" way to increase the quality versus:

You get 15 seed of "same quality"

Plant 5 seeds on the H0;
Plant 5 seeds on the H6;
Plant 5 seeds on the H12;

* wait until ready to harvest *

get the best seed of those 3 and repeat the cycle.

How much this fall behind the other method? It's doesn't look that increase that much more since you will probably lose seed to "replant".

If you use "statistics" for it, each "plant" will give 3 seeds of (-2,+5) quality, it's like 14,28% chance to get the +5, and 28,57% chance to get a (+4,+5). To keep it "sustainable" it should at least be 33%, since 1 tile can only feed 3 tiles ( which 2 of them should be probably discarded);

It didn't get the "benefit" of doing the full cycle ( 36 hours, one plant each 6 hours) between planting one time each 6 hours for the first 18 hours, which now is really possible for humans, since now we get a huge window to do so.
Last edited by Luanes on Tue May 29, 2018 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby vaultboy80 » Tue May 29, 2018 5:12 am

Did I understand correctly? I plant a flax field of 100x100. I wait 3 days after the plants have reached the last stage. I harvest from 1 tile and plant my best seeds there. Thanks to a three-day increase in the growth rate, the planted plant almost immediately grows. I'm harvesting from him and another neighbor tile. I repeat the cycle. Since the average quality increases by 1.5 per cycle. By the end of the field I will have seeds of 15000 quality, and all that limits me is the skill of farming.
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Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby Morrighan » Tue May 29, 2018 5:16 am

Nice patch on my birthday! Awesome :D
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Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby Luanes » Tue May 29, 2018 5:17 am

vaultboy80 wrote:Did I understand correctly? I plant a flax field of 100x100. I wait 3 days after the plants have reached the last stage. I harvest from 1 tile and plant my best seeds there. Thanks to a three-day increase in the growth rate, the planted plant almost immediately grows. I'm harvesting from him and another neighbor tile. I repeat the cycle. Since the average quality increases by 1.5 per cycle. By the end of the field I will have seeds of 15000 quality, and all that limits me is the skill of farming.


Well pointed
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Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby waga » Tue May 29, 2018 5:27 am

Luanes wrote:
waga wrote:
Luanes wrote:Sorry, I did get it. Can you explain?

If I plant something, it will need to be ready to harvest to check it's quality. So, if I plant every hour, when it's time to harvest I will have many combinations of -2 and +5. You will not be able to plant the same amount of crops with only he +5 ones. Or I'm wrong?


Indeed but that's not how you raise q anyway.
Let's take simple numbers to make it easy to understand.
a crop take 36h to grow , you have 6 different fields. you plant first one at H0 , second one H+6 , third one H+12 etc.
With this cycle you need to plant / harvest one field every 6 hours , which is hard for an human to do , easy for a bot. but your average Q/ hour increase will be a lot higher than if you planted everything at the same time every 36h.
The big advantage of the bot over the human is that it will harvest / plant every 6 hours and exactly 6 hours , making perfect cycle ( I think a perfect cycle is 5h actually , but it might have changed , and I couldn't confirm the info)
New patch wanted to get rid of that , it could look good on paper except that ... :
bot will simply make a cycle with 12 fields instead of 6 to take advantage of these sweet stored time buffer ... ( like a fallow land )
Does it reduce the advantage of the bot over the dedicated player ? clearly not. its cycle are still perfect , exactly on time but over a 72h period instead of 36 with 2x more field.
Does it reduce the advantage of the bot over the casual ? yeah I guess so , but why did they care in the first place anyway :roll:
Does it increase the amount of work of the dedicated player ? yup , does it gives him incentive to use these bots ? probably.

edit to make it clear : you obviously store your seeds when you harvest and use your best ones when you plant , you don't plant the freshly harvested neceserally :p

I mean it seems pretty clear to me that the main goal on this matter should not be to reduce the advantage of the bots over the average person but target the audience that could feel the need to such bots.
This change makes exactly the opposite of that.
Also , if the original idea was to reduce the advantage of the bot by also reducing the one from the dedicated players , that make a very boring game imo


Got it. I've already thought, but still makes no "sense" for me on why this could be "so much faster" way to increase the quality versus:

You get 15 seed of "same quality"

Plant 5 seeds on the H0;
Plant 5 seeds on the H6;
Plant 5 seeds on the H12;

* wait until ready to harvest *

get the best seed of those 3 and repeat the cycle.

How much this fall behind the other method? It's doesn't look that increase that much more since you will probably lose seed to "replant".

If you use "statistics" for it, each "plant" will give 3 seeds of (-2,+5) quality, it's like 14,28% chance to get the +5, and 28,57% chance to get a (+4,+5). To keep it "sustainable" it should at least be 33%, since 1 tile can only feed 3 tiles ( which 2 of them should be probably discarded);

It didn't get the "benefit" of doing the full cycle ( 36 hours, one plant each 6 hours) between planting one time each 6 hours for the first 18 hours, which now is really possible for humans, since now we get a huge window to do so.


with my method you gain +1.5q on average every 6h
I just need 18h for 4.5 which you don't have with yours , obv

edit: I might be wrong on that :P , ill have to think about it when it's not 6am
second edit : just to point that you don't get 3 seeds from 1 but 3.6 with farmer credo
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Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby ctopolon3 » Tue May 29, 2018 7:01 am

so we need x4 land for plant carrot (where 25% will work & 75% rest)
what if i replant carrot in abadoned village? it will regrow 1 minute?
could we have some animation on plowed tile while its resting, could it have visual difference from fresh plowed tile?
Last edited by ctopolon3 on Tue May 29, 2018 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Development: Post Rose

Postby jorb » Tue May 29, 2018 7:25 am

Will remake the mechanic so that you don't need extra fields to gain a bonus. That was not the intention.
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